It's come to my attention that a few of you guys have a few grievances with the requirement of having to have two people to vouch for an applicant.
I thought I'd write abit about why we implemented it again. It is widely used in the SSX groups I believe. We did use it briefly in WoW but we used to make exceptions to the ''Oh my, he sounds nice! Let's get him in''. So in the end we ended up dropping it and ended up dealing with tons of applicants - one of the reasons recruitment was shut down alot.
When I came back into the group, I wanted to make a change for the better. A way to alleviate the tensions of recruitment. I thought having the vouching sytems back and sticking to it would ease the strain. I saw a similar sight, people waiting ages because the mods were speaking to the random applicants who just apply anywhere instead of focusing on the people who could really benefit the group. Instead of letting them wait weeks on end which isn't really acceptable, the mods can speak to them much sooner with the vouching system.
I can't personally see what the problem is with having to have 2 vouches. We have said that if people are turned down due to the fact of having not enough vouches then by all means, go away and make some friends in the SSX. See if they're willing to vouch for your membership and we will reconsider your application. We can't be any fairer then that. It does however cut down on the amount of crap the newly appointed mods have to deal with. If someone goes away and makes the effort to get to know us then great but if not we have lost nothing. We haven't spent hours speaking to them either. It also helps to alleviate the not feeling part of the group or infact feeling isolated in a new group which believe me we have had happen so many times due to the fact people have joined us not knowing anyone.
I think you guys should think about the pro's and con's of the system we have put in place and then share your views.
Recent Recruitment Upset
Moderator: Global Moderators
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SSX-Ava
- Posts: 691
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Last edited by SSX-Ava on Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ruhn
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:40 pm
- Location: Netherlands
I would like to add something,
Its hard to judge someone on a few chats, and posting ''hes great, let him join'' doesnt help much either. I'd like to see some arguments WHY they are so great and friendly, share experiences give us a good view on the persons personality. ty
Ruhn
Its hard to judge someone on a few chats, and posting ''hes great, let him join'' doesnt help much either. I'd like to see some arguments WHY they are so great and friendly, share experiences give us a good view on the persons personality. ty
Ruhn
Chuck Norris beat Halo 2 on Legendary using only the strafe buttons and flashlight -.-
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Inquisitor
- Posts: 3411
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:46 am
- Location: SSX
Two vouches should be the only way. In the past, your two vouchers were from mods, effectively. Two is the minimum, its much more successful if a bunch of people actually meet and get to know you. You come into our family, we should like you and you should like us. It HAS to work that way.
Look at the banner at the top, and if you can't find AT LEAST two people to speak for you, chances are really, really good you won't succeed here.
Look at the banner at the top, and if you can't find AT LEAST two people to speak for you, chances are really, really good you won't succeed here.
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Misspain
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:43 pm
- Location: Malta
This rule does make sense in terms of our guild, since we are also a community and that means it's more than a raiding guild or one of those guilds in which people join just to have a tabard or something. It helps with 2 things principally: Firstly, the applicant will know or have spoken with some members of the guild and thus he/she wont be a stranger once they join, and secondly it is also an opportunity for regular members to involve themselves and have a say in the recruitment process, thus removing some of the burden from the mods. On paper at least it sounds as a fair system. If there have been some particular cases were someone felt that this system did not work correctly (or "as intended" to quite blizz ), I'm sure it can be discussed with the mods or on the forums.
), I'm sure it can be discussed with the mods or on the forums.Misspain - 60 Gnome Mage
Grostag - 60 Human Pally
Aelynn - 38 NE Hunter
Grostag - 60 Human Pally
Aelynn - 38 NE Hunter
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Riccko
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:36 am
- Location: MSN ssxbimbo@hotmail.com
hi
I think one the main problems is real life friends (rlf)
People get upset that they get turned down as well, cause obvioulsy
they want them in the guild. (and to be honest so would i)
But does that mean the are suitable for ssx.
I think it would be great if the rlf applicants would get more involved
and maybe doing some 5 man runs or something like that with some of the members. or some pvp.
maybe there should be a slightly different approach rlf but that can only be done if they are willing to make the effort in return
there can't be nothing worse than having a rlf turned down so give it
some thought and say what you think here.
reagrds Riccko
I think one the main problems is real life friends (rlf)
People get upset that they get turned down as well, cause obvioulsy
they want them in the guild. (and to be honest so would i)
But does that mean the are suitable for ssx.
I think it would be great if the rlf applicants would get more involved
and maybe doing some 5 man runs or something like that with some of the members. or some pvp.
maybe there should be a slightly different approach rlf but that can only be done if they are willing to make the effort in return
there can't be nothing worse than having a rlf turned down so give it
some thought and say what you think here.
reagrds Riccko
I am of the opinion that my life belongs to this community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can.
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M.Steiner
- Posts: 6114
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
- Location: UK
For a start, the vouching system is nothing new, we've been using it here ever since we founded.
The people that have been turned down because they haven't got at least 2 people to vouch for them haven't been turned down permanently as Ava has already said. They just need to make some more friends here first and then they are free to re-apply. If they're not prepared to get to know the people they are wishing to join first then tbh they don't need to be in the guild just to play with the friend they already have. If they are prepared, then there shouldn't be a problem.
Just get to know us first, and let us get to know you, then re-apply. Thats all. Nothing for people to be angry or upset about.
The people that have been turned down because they haven't got at least 2 people to vouch for them haven't been turned down permanently as Ava has already said. They just need to make some more friends here first and then they are free to re-apply. If they're not prepared to get to know the people they are wishing to join first then tbh they don't need to be in the guild just to play with the friend they already have. If they are prepared, then there shouldn't be a problem.
Just get to know us first, and let us get to know you, then re-apply. Thats all. Nothing for people to be angry or upset about.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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Scorpius
- Posts: 673
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Vouching system never used that as far as I know in Neocron back in the day...... 
In fact QD wanted to recruit me and my entire guild just from talking to me and Ph34r at one point...... 
( Neocron guilds being small that would have been about 10-15 of us at the time.. )
By all means recruit friends and family but don't be surprised when one goes thay all go which did happen alot this summer.
Anyways personally I'm against the vouch system I've often recruited by my gut feelings and most that I did recruit or had a hand in recruiting stayed the distance Acahlon and Sofia springing to mind.
Anyways whos gonna vouch for me to get back in.......
In fact QD wanted to recruit me and my entire guild just from talking to me and Ph34r at one point...... ( Neocron guilds being small that would have been about 10-15 of us at the time.. )By all means recruit friends and family but don't be surprised when one goes thay all go which did happen alot this summer.
Anyways personally I'm against the vouch system I've often recruited by my gut feelings and most that I did recruit or had a hand in recruiting stayed the distance Acahlon and Sofia springing to mind.
Anyways whos gonna vouch for me to get back in.......
Power Corrupts, Ultimate Power is Fun.
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SoulSeeker
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:02 pm
- Location: Scotland
I'll vouch for you Scorp..tho godknows why 
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QuantumDelta
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:51 pm
- Location: Bristol, England.
Psst, most of the guild wanted you in, I had no choice, nub.Scorpius wrote:Vouching system never used that as far as I know in Neocron back in the day......
By all means recruit friends and family but don't be surprised when one goes thay all go which did happen alot this summer.
Anyways personally I'm against the vouch system I've often recruited by my gut feelings and most that I did recruit or had a hand in recruiting stayed the distance Acahlon and Sofia springing to mind.
Anyways whos gonna vouch for me to get back in.......
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."
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Crem.peace
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:11 pm
As far as the real life friends go, then surely they have an advantage by knowing 1 person already, and therefore only needing 1 other vouch? For me, the current system works. SSX is all about FRIENDSHIP, i.e. a group of friends, rather than people who just plug in and play together... that's the way I see SSX anyways.
P.S. When are we g0nn4 get epaxxXXXX?!?!?1/11
P.S. When are we g0nn4 get epaxxXXXX?!?!?1/11
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Stracius
- Posts: 1471
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I'm still waiting to see the other side of the coin here. Are the people who don't like this method not reading the forums? Or perhaps they were just belly-aching about something that logically made sense?
Where's the rest of the 10 cents?
Where's the rest of the 10 cents?
hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.
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Unimatrixx
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:51 am
- Location: Zeeland
2 persons who can let somebody in is not going to work, i would choose for more people to agree or maybe a guildvote on some.
With just so little people envolved, you will get most people invited out of favouratism, peeps which they like and others may not.
With just so little people envolved, you will get most people invited out of favouratism, peeps which they like and others may not.
Assumption is the mother of all f*ckups.
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SSX-Ava
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:10 pm
- Location: Yorkshire, UK
Just because an applicant has the 2 initial vouches it doesn't mean he gets an insant /ginvite by any means.
It only means the current rotated mods will start to handle his application and then judge wether he would fit in here.
At least 2 of the mods will handle each application.
It only means the current rotated mods will start to handle his application and then judge wether he would fit in here.
At least 2 of the mods will handle each application.
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Bladesinger
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:53 pm
- Location: If I were a snake I'd have bitten you.
Adding to what MS said, we've used the 2 vouches, or a similar method, for *years*. It was standard SSC policy in the 90s when I joined, was for as long as I was SSC, and has been here with SSX since the split. Due to the nature of our group it's a very effective method and shouldn't be ignored.
If anything we should all consider the 2 member voucher a minimum, especially with community oriented games such as WoW. I'd highly recommend taking a look at our recruitment procedures for Mannoroth, they've worked out very well so far. It's difficult, if not impossible, to really get to know someone well enough for full membership after one or two chats.
Mannoroth recruiting procedure:
1. Fill out an app in the recruiting forum so we can get an idea of why the person is applying
2. Recruit given initiate status and encouraged to play with as many members as possible.
3. Two weeks later membership status for the recruit is put up for a vote across the whole guild during our weekly meeting. If a majority of members (not initiates) present vote yes (vs. abstain) the initiate is raised to member. If the majority abstain the recruit is still kept as an initiate with the understanding that we all need to make an effort to get to know the player.
If there is even *one* no vote, the situation is reviewed. If it's determined that the problem is resolvable the recruit is given more time as an initiate to recitfy the issue. If not, they're removed from the roster.
4. At any time should it be necessary due to sufficiently improper behavior an officer (preferrably after consulting with all other online officers or calling in offline officers) can kick any member or initiate from the guild on the spot. This is seen as a serious situation and isn't taken lightly but has happened on occasion. It's also saved us from a lot of future trouble.
This has worked out very well for us. Even with as many new members as we've had join in the past couple months we haven't lost our sense of community or guild personality.
If anything we should all consider the 2 member voucher a minimum, especially with community oriented games such as WoW. I'd highly recommend taking a look at our recruitment procedures for Mannoroth, they've worked out very well so far. It's difficult, if not impossible, to really get to know someone well enough for full membership after one or two chats.
Mannoroth recruiting procedure:
1. Fill out an app in the recruiting forum so we can get an idea of why the person is applying
2. Recruit given initiate status and encouraged to play with as many members as possible.
3. Two weeks later membership status for the recruit is put up for a vote across the whole guild during our weekly meeting. If a majority of members (not initiates) present vote yes (vs. abstain) the initiate is raised to member. If the majority abstain the recruit is still kept as an initiate with the understanding that we all need to make an effort to get to know the player.
If there is even *one* no vote, the situation is reviewed. If it's determined that the problem is resolvable the recruit is given more time as an initiate to recitfy the issue. If not, they're removed from the roster.
4. At any time should it be necessary due to sufficiently improper behavior an officer (preferrably after consulting with all other online officers or calling in offline officers) can kick any member or initiate from the guild on the spot. This is seen as a serious situation and isn't taken lightly but has happened on occasion. It's also saved us from a lot of future trouble.
This has worked out very well for us. Even with as many new members as we've had join in the past couple months we haven't lost our sense of community or guild personality.
Shattered Star since 1998
Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman
Gallarien of Lorien, Hunter/Woodsman
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Sondemon
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
It sounds harsh what Bladesinger is saying, but I can actually see that as a good system. And if it'd be voted for to be used by Outland aswell I'd vote for it.
Dunno what others think about it tho..
Dunno what others think about it tho..
There is a cow level, and it's called MULGORE!
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
"I can still hear the laughter echo, and the taste of blood in my mouth.."
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Stracius
- Posts: 1471
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Just keep in mind that because we have something we've been using for years, that doesn't make it perfect. We're always open to ideas on improving ourselves, and if you have one feel free to voice it.
Some may say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but to that I say there's no harm in window-shopping. And if you find something that runs better, time for a trade-in.
Me? I'm content with the current system, but that's probably because I haven't seen any problems arise from it (When It Is Used Properly
).
Some may say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but to that I say there's no harm in window-shopping. And if you find something that runs better, time for a trade-in.
Me? I'm content with the current system, but that's probably because I haven't seen any problems arise from it (When It Is Used Properly
).hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.