EVE
Moderators: EvE Moderators, Global Moderators
- Fenavian
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Here.
Well since it looks like there might be a few people interested in EVE, some people might be curious about some of the ground rules for the Group.
First off will there be pirating allowed? It's a sore spot with some people and not a sore spot with others. It's definatly something to be voted on.
Which brings up my second point, due to the uniqueness of EVE, will everyone in the Group have an ability to vote on various issues or will we set up something like a board of directors to vote on the direction of the corp?
Thirdly, I guess we can worry about this when there are more people, but how will we do recruiting? Standard vouch and play proceedure?
And lastly, what kind of Corp will we be? Mining, Anti-Pirate, a mix of things?
These are things that are not nessicary to hammer down immediatly, its just something to think about if we intend to get a group going.
First off will there be pirating allowed? It's a sore spot with some people and not a sore spot with others. It's definatly something to be voted on.
Which brings up my second point, due to the uniqueness of EVE, will everyone in the Group have an ability to vote on various issues or will we set up something like a board of directors to vote on the direction of the corp?
Thirdly, I guess we can worry about this when there are more people, but how will we do recruiting? Standard vouch and play proceedure?
And lastly, what kind of Corp will we be? Mining, Anti-Pirate, a mix of things?
These are things that are not nessicary to hammer down immediatly, its just something to think about if we intend to get a group going.
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- SSX-Killjoy
- Posts: 778
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:17 pm
- Location: SSX - CG, AZ
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I am surprised we have to answer these kinds of questions. But here goes (all is subject to change of course)
Pirating:
To be with the tag this should be an automatic no-no. The goal is to have fun in the game, not make other people's lives miserable. Remember Friendship and fun..
Voting:
As far as I am concerned I would prefer everyone be able to vote. We all vote here on the forums, no reason why it can't work in game. We can always burn this bridge later if it becomes impractical.
Recruiting:
I think current standard for groups is two vouches from current players. It should work for now. Although I don't think there is a lot of need to worry about recruitment for now. We need to get our feet settled and get corp stuff established. If we find that cool person that we all think would work well in a corp by all means lets see how he does. But no real need to stress over it.
We will most likely be getting a mixture of people who were already ssx or ssc, so initially I think those who come to play should be allowed in via vouchers and let it sit at that.
Corp Type:
We should be whatever the players want to be. I certainly don't want to tell a player not to be anti-pirate becuase I want to mine rocks and ice. I am sure that mini groups will form inside the corp for the different types of things needed or desired for corp members. Builders, miners, fighters, explorers, etc.
But mainly the goal is to have fun and to promote being friends. No matter how we setup the corp, or deal with others; we should keep that goal in mind.
Pirating:
To be with the tag this should be an automatic no-no. The goal is to have fun in the game, not make other people's lives miserable. Remember Friendship and fun..
Voting:
As far as I am concerned I would prefer everyone be able to vote. We all vote here on the forums, no reason why it can't work in game. We can always burn this bridge later if it becomes impractical.
Recruiting:
I think current standard for groups is two vouches from current players. It should work for now. Although I don't think there is a lot of need to worry about recruitment for now. We need to get our feet settled and get corp stuff established. If we find that cool person that we all think would work well in a corp by all means lets see how he does. But no real need to stress over it.
We will most likely be getting a mixture of people who were already ssx or ssc, so initially I think those who come to play should be allowed in via vouchers and let it sit at that.
Corp Type:
We should be whatever the players want to be. I certainly don't want to tell a player not to be anti-pirate becuase I want to mine rocks and ice. I am sure that mini groups will form inside the corp for the different types of things needed or desired for corp members. Builders, miners, fighters, explorers, etc.
But mainly the goal is to have fun and to promote being friends. No matter how we setup the corp, or deal with others; we should keep that goal in mind.
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I will be forever Shattered Star, but only as an
EXILE can I find peace in this lifetime.
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I will be forever Shattered Star, but only as an
EXILE can I find peace in this lifetime.
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- Kon
- Posts: 1525
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Oh, come on! It's an aspect of the game, it's not like it's griefing or anything. Besides, it's not like we chase someone across the galaxy if they run away. That's the difference between "Pirate" and "Oppertunist."SSX-Killjoy wrote:Pirating:
To be with the tag this should be an automatic no-no. The goal is to have fun in the game, not make other people's lives miserable. Remember Friendship and fun.
- SSX-Wedge
- Posts: 128
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I'll touch on some of these more important subjects tonight.
As for Voting we can do it in Game. I will be making some shares for the corp and then I will pass them out to our main players. The shares give you the right to vote. We can do it on the forums or in game its up to you guys.
SSX-Wedge
As for Voting we can do it in Game. I will be making some shares for the corp and then I will pass them out to our main players. The shares give you the right to vote. We can do it on the forums or in game its up to you guys.
SSX-Wedge
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
- Anubis
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In EvE pirating means players lose hours of work, days/weeks of skills (yes, know you can have clones, etc. But that doesnt replace the ship regardless). There is a difference between ganking in a game like WoW where a player just respawns at a graveyard with no penalties and in EveKahn wrote:Oh, come on! It's an aspect of the game, it's not like it's griefing or anything. Besides, it's not like we chase someone across the galaxy if they run away. That's the difference between "Pirate" and "Oppertunist."SSX-Killjoy wrote:Pirating:
To be with the tag this should be an automatic no-no. The goal is to have fun in the game, not make other people's lives miserable. Remember Friendship and fun.
I think Ed argued that point on IRC a few days ago. Went into a lot more detail
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch
Forever an eXile and proud of it!
Forever an eXile and proud of it!
- Kon
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Yes, he did. Though I believe we are equally divided on this issue, and more consideration is needed. I know for a fact Salyn is a pirate. Also, there is cloning for the skills and insurance for the ship. Not to mention you are usually targeted a few seconds before being fired upon. Surley there is plenty of time to warp someplace.Anubis wrote:In EvE pirating means players lose hours of work, days/weeks of skills (yes, know you can have clones, etc. But that doesnt replace the ship regardless). There is a difference between ganking in a game like WoW where a player just respawns at a graveyard with no penalties and in Eve
I think Ed argued that point on IRC a few days ago. Went into a lot more detail
EDIT: By the way, it's not like there's no risk to the pirate.
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I am, at an extremely fundamental level, against any SSX group pirating in EvE.
Unless the mecahnics of it have changed, bullying people for money and costing people real time to recover is fundamentally against my persoal beliefs.
PvP is one thing. Extortion and "digital gangsterism" is something people should be ashamed of, then again, people have been griefing in games for years, so it shouldn't surprise me that this is how some people get their jollies.
Unless the mecahnics of it have changed, bullying people for money and costing people real time to recover is fundamentally against my persoal beliefs.
PvP is one thing. Extortion and "digital gangsterism" is something people should be ashamed of, then again, people have been griefing in games for years, so it shouldn't surprise me that this is how some people get their jollies.
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- SSX-Wedge
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Here are some of my thoughts.
I know we are going to have a few more people joining the corp in the next couple of days..... well, I hope at least. I dont want to speak for all of them. As a corp people can set our security rating from + to - the settings also change the color around the ship, as you view them from a distance. As you will see... in my POS post that there are pirates in game. Your actions on others could get a security adjustment with another corp. One of their many players will see you as yellow maybe red. This means you or your corp is hostile to them. So they lock and load. They dont care if its you or someone else in your corp... a day a week a month from now. Someone else will pay for your actions. Sometime they will take action... other times they will not. Nothing worse that hauling fuel or your product to market and getting the guns put to you in the process. If someone locks you lock them back.
If they fire.... return fire. Be fore warned. You might be able to escape, but many players are going to have more skills that you and will be able to use many different weapons than you. They could drain your capacitor to nothing. Leaving you unable to do anything. No guns, no shields, not being able to jump out. You could be warp scrambled... meaning if you dont have warp stabiliziers on your ship.... you are stuck there.
Just use your heads in game.
The recruiting.... I will be putting up a post on the Eve boards. We will see if we get any bites.
Oh theres so much more to talk about.
SSX-Wedge
I know we are going to have a few more people joining the corp in the next couple of days..... well, I hope at least. I dont want to speak for all of them. As a corp people can set our security rating from + to - the settings also change the color around the ship, as you view them from a distance. As you will see... in my POS post that there are pirates in game. Your actions on others could get a security adjustment with another corp. One of their many players will see you as yellow maybe red. This means you or your corp is hostile to them. So they lock and load. They dont care if its you or someone else in your corp... a day a week a month from now. Someone else will pay for your actions. Sometime they will take action... other times they will not. Nothing worse that hauling fuel or your product to market and getting the guns put to you in the process. If someone locks you lock them back.
If they fire.... return fire. Be fore warned. You might be able to escape, but many players are going to have more skills that you and will be able to use many different weapons than you. They could drain your capacitor to nothing. Leaving you unable to do anything. No guns, no shields, not being able to jump out. You could be warp scrambled... meaning if you dont have warp stabiliziers on your ship.... you are stuck there.
Just use your heads in game.
The recruiting.... I will be putting up a post on the Eve boards. We will see if we get any bites.
Oh theres so much more to talk about.
SSX-Wedge
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
- Ozany
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:12 pm
- Location: Saint Marys, Ga
I am new here, and as such take this with a grain. First I'd like to say hello to some old faces. Second, and more importantly, one of the reasons I left the SSC EVE was because of this very issue. I am industrial based. The last thing I need is for some body that got ganked a week or 2 ago to find me hauling several hundred million worth of goods and blow me up for retribution. I had other issues with SSC, don't get me wrong, but the idea of pirating has always left a bad taste in my mouth so to speak.
Again, I would like to say hello and thank you all for allowing me to be a part of this fine group. That is , if you will have me
Again, I would like to say hello and thank you all for allowing me to be a part of this fine group. That is , if you will have me
- Kon
- Posts: 1525
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Nevermind.
I vote no pirate alts. (Certainly not in the SSX corp for the additional reasons Wedge stated.) It would indeed not go along with the rule of Friendship. Though I know no one would attack another SSX member, but it is also important to show friendship to the rest of the community. My personal view on pirating remains that it is just a game element, but my opinion is not what matters. What matters is if the guy I kill thinks that way or not, and obviously, there are a good number of people who feel that they have actually worked very hard to obtain what they have ingame, and view pirating as extortion and taking away the fruits of their labor. It would be very unfair to others if I only took my own opinion into account with no consideration for others.
Therefore, I ask anyone who may have thought about making a pirate alt to reconsider, because there are many people who feel differently than you, and calling them "carebear" as you watch their ship explode certainly isn't in the friendly spirit of the SSX.
I vote no pirate alts. (Certainly not in the SSX corp for the additional reasons Wedge stated.) It would indeed not go along with the rule of Friendship. Though I know no one would attack another SSX member, but it is also important to show friendship to the rest of the community. My personal view on pirating remains that it is just a game element, but my opinion is not what matters. What matters is if the guy I kill thinks that way or not, and obviously, there are a good number of people who feel that they have actually worked very hard to obtain what they have ingame, and view pirating as extortion and taking away the fruits of their labor. It would be very unfair to others if I only took my own opinion into account with no consideration for others.
Therefore, I ask anyone who may have thought about making a pirate alt to reconsider, because there are many people who feel differently than you, and calling them "carebear" as you watch their ship explode certainly isn't in the friendly spirit of the SSX.
- Gryphon
- Posts: 872
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:33 am
- Location: Under the rug...
My thoughts.
M borther used to roll with a corp on eve. SOme of thier newer recruits decided to take it upon themselves to go off and kick up trouble.
They were "bored".
This boredom however resulted in his corp being targetted by numerous others, in a very one sided situation. More ships, more resources. It quickly become a chore to log in only to find yourself staring down the same barrels every night.
I'm all for PvP, I think it's one of the defining challenges of the MMO genre. What I'm not up for is dragging everyone in a corp into a mess that could hav ebeen avoided, purely because we wear the same tag.
I'm well aware of how the politis work in eve, sometimes joining an alliance requires participation in fleet action, it's part and parcel of the game. Sometimes you do have to fight, and someimes you do have to strike the first blow.
What I'm not up for at all any kind of combat spurred on by callousness.
PvP yes, deliberately costing somone time, money and effort? No. Unless there's a good reason of course
Some of the things I envision would be
Fleet action as part of an alliance (with a reasonable attitude and motive)
Escorting our own Indies
Defence of POS
Anti Pirating
Above are all examples of PvP with a point, and there's plenty within that list to keep even kahn occupied!
M borther used to roll with a corp on eve. SOme of thier newer recruits decided to take it upon themselves to go off and kick up trouble.
They were "bored".
This boredom however resulted in his corp being targetted by numerous others, in a very one sided situation. More ships, more resources. It quickly become a chore to log in only to find yourself staring down the same barrels every night.
I'm all for PvP, I think it's one of the defining challenges of the MMO genre. What I'm not up for is dragging everyone in a corp into a mess that could hav ebeen avoided, purely because we wear the same tag.
I'm well aware of how the politis work in eve, sometimes joining an alliance requires participation in fleet action, it's part and parcel of the game. Sometimes you do have to fight, and someimes you do have to strike the first blow.
What I'm not up for at all any kind of combat spurred on by callousness.
PvP yes, deliberately costing somone time, money and effort? No. Unless there's a good reason of course
Some of the things I envision would be
Fleet action as part of an alliance (with a reasonable attitude and motive)
Escorting our own Indies
Defence of POS
Anti Pirating
Above are all examples of PvP with a point, and there's plenty within that list to keep even kahn occupied!
ESO - EU - Ebonheart
Jalfrezi - Khajit DK/Destro
Peeks-Through-Windows - Argonian Templar/Resto
Jalfrezi - Khajit DK/Destro
Peeks-Through-Windows - Argonian Templar/Resto
- Fenavian
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Here.
Ok let me be more specific...
First off Pirating doesn't nessicarily mean extorting people for cash. That's just simply one type of that aspect. It could simply mean that we kill everyone that's not our group in low sec space. We did something similar in Asheron's Call. We killed everyone not in our group. It was after all a PVP server. In that respect it's just a simple matter of they are not our allies so therefore they are my enemies. However I feel this should only apply to 0.0 space.
I am against the idea of ransoming people for their ships yes but I am not above taking down someone not in our corp. Those are two completly different aspects however they are both pirating in that sense as well. Though in that same respect, in 0.0 space most of the time people will shoot you in your not in their corp/alliance, esspecially if you wander in their territory...
I also wanted to bring this issue up as there are a few people in the SSX who have strong views on one side or the other. I will go with the majority on this. So I will have no issues one way or another. But regardless of the decision, rules will have to be made so there is no confusion on the matter what so ever. Unfortunatly with some people the "no asshat" rule simply won't be enough here.
Secondly you can add my name to the list, I will be joning, I just have to go around and get all my stuff out of various holdings first.
Thirdly I reccomend that we have an Office at Oursalert 3. its a nice safe area there.
First off Pirating doesn't nessicarily mean extorting people for cash. That's just simply one type of that aspect. It could simply mean that we kill everyone that's not our group in low sec space. We did something similar in Asheron's Call. We killed everyone not in our group. It was after all a PVP server. In that respect it's just a simple matter of they are not our allies so therefore they are my enemies. However I feel this should only apply to 0.0 space.
I am against the idea of ransoming people for their ships yes but I am not above taking down someone not in our corp. Those are two completly different aspects however they are both pirating in that sense as well. Though in that same respect, in 0.0 space most of the time people will shoot you in your not in their corp/alliance, esspecially if you wander in their territory...
I also wanted to bring this issue up as there are a few people in the SSX who have strong views on one side or the other. I will go with the majority on this. So I will have no issues one way or another. But regardless of the decision, rules will have to be made so there is no confusion on the matter what so ever. Unfortunatly with some people the "no asshat" rule simply won't be enough here.
Secondly you can add my name to the list, I will be joning, I just have to go around and get all my stuff out of various holdings first.
Thirdly I reccomend that we have an Office at Oursalert 3. its a nice safe area there.
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- SSX-Wedge
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Points taken
I just opened an Office in Mies VII Moon 3 Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Thats just one Jump from Oursalert.
SSX-Wedge
I just opened an Office in Mies VII Moon 3 Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Thats just one Jump from Oursalert.
SSX-Wedge
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. FZ
- Stracius
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That aspect is plausible if, and only if everyone in the corp wants to play the game that way. If we get people that wish to abstain from that method of playing... well, that's where the problems with wearing the same clan tag come in.Laughing Man wrote:It could simply mean that we kill everyone that's not our group in low sec space. We did something similar in Asheron's Call. We killed everyone not in our group. It was after all a PVP server. In that respect it's just a simple matter of they are not our allies so therefore they are my enemies.
I myself would likely fall into the latter category, but it does not matter as I am not playing . Just something to keep in mind. It's a good idea to get this taken care of up front though so there aren't problems down the road.
- Fenavian
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Every group, regardless if they are Pirates, Anti, Big, Small, or what have you, has those folks who do thoses arduous tasks like mining and agent missions and such.Stracius wrote:That aspect is plausible if, and only if everyone in the corp wants to play the game that way. If we get people that wish to abstain from that method of playing... well, that's where the problems with wearing the same clan tag come in.Laughing Man wrote:It could simply mean that we kill everyone that's not our group in low sec space. We did something similar in Asheron's Call. We killed everyone not in our group. It was after all a PVP server. In that respect it's just a simple matter of they are not our allies so therefore they are my enemies.
I myself would likely fall into the latter category, but it does not matter as I am not playing . Just something to keep in mind. It's a good idea to get this taken care of up front though so there aren't problems down the road.
Now keep in mind I am not trying to push on the whole KOS thing or anything, I am just saying that some peeps want to disscuss it. So here we are.
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- SSX-Killjoy
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If our goal is to be friends, then KOS's should only exist after the fact, not before the fact. Just becuase we are in an area of space doesn't mean we have to kill everyone who crosses it.
With friendship it should be up to us to play the game how it should best be played, not how everyone else does. If someone comes in territory we have, we should get to know them. If they are only there to be a problem we ask them nicely to leave. If they have peaceful or good intentions then perhaps it helps us build up our typically long list of friends.
We should be the switzerland of the game, in that we are the one everyone is friends with and do trade with. I realize that the game itself doesn't really allow a total and complete nuetral state, but we could give it the old SS try. I don't play the game so that I can be the best, richest, most honored, etc. I play the game to have fun. I would hate to think that we would go out of our way to make sure someone else didn't have fun.
There are times for all purposes in the game. I would be more proud of us if we weren't like every other corp out there, than I would be if we were doing this because X number of corps did it that way. There will be the need for a KOS list though.. As there is always a bunch of jerks in these types of games.
I realize I am going to sound like a broken record here, but it is the most prevalent point of this whole discussion. We can do anything we want really. But what has made the SSX great in the games that we play, isn't because we have the best players or the richest players. It is becuase we play the game to have fun. So.. Have fun.. and as long as that is accomplished.. We will be great.
With friendship it should be up to us to play the game how it should best be played, not how everyone else does. If someone comes in territory we have, we should get to know them. If they are only there to be a problem we ask them nicely to leave. If they have peaceful or good intentions then perhaps it helps us build up our typically long list of friends.
We should be the switzerland of the game, in that we are the one everyone is friends with and do trade with. I realize that the game itself doesn't really allow a total and complete nuetral state, but we could give it the old SS try. I don't play the game so that I can be the best, richest, most honored, etc. I play the game to have fun. I would hate to think that we would go out of our way to make sure someone else didn't have fun.
There are times for all purposes in the game. I would be more proud of us if we weren't like every other corp out there, than I would be if we were doing this because X number of corps did it that way. There will be the need for a KOS list though.. As there is always a bunch of jerks in these types of games.
I realize I am going to sound like a broken record here, but it is the most prevalent point of this whole discussion. We can do anything we want really. But what has made the SSX great in the games that we play, isn't because we have the best players or the richest players. It is becuase we play the game to have fun. So.. Have fun.. and as long as that is accomplished.. We will be great.
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I will be forever Shattered Star, but only as an
EXILE can I find peace in this lifetime.
================================
I will be forever Shattered Star, but only as an
EXILE can I find peace in this lifetime.
================================
- Fenavian
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:55 pm
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[Devil's Advocate]I understand with what your saying and on many levels I agree with it, however inevitably there will need to go out in 0.0 space and we shall be pretty much hostile to everyone out there. Lots of people will shoot first and ask questions later. [/Devil's Advocate]
So we need to make some sort of ground rules as to how to approach first contacts then.
So we need to make some sort of ground rules as to how to approach first contacts then.
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-
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For chrissakes, shoot back. Use some common sense and some common courtesy and don't intentionally go out to ruin peoples fun. You don't need a 50 page rule book to determine what to do. Under no circumstances would I personally ever shoot first. That's a personal choice. EVERYTHING is situational, though. What I do not want to see or hear about is a consistent shoot first approach regardless of circumstance, or anything resembling the typical in game extortion aka Piracy.however inevitably there will need to go out in 0.0 space and we shall be pretty much hostile to everyone out there.
Don't draft SOP's for everything, too many rules are bad.
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- Fenavian
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Low sec space is basically like entering a pvp server. People die out there people get podded, people lose tonnes of money out there. it's a simple fact of the game. So, to some people, going out in that rather dangerous enviroment without your finger on the trigger on the first person you see is a good way to lose some money. It's not nessicarily "ruining people fun".Inquisitor wrote:For chrissakes, shoot back. Use some common sense and some common courtesy and don't intentionally go out to ruin peoples fun. You don't need a 50 page rule book to determine what to do. Under no circumstances would I personally ever shoot first. That's a personal choice. EVERYTHING is situational, though. What I do not want to see or hear about is a consistent shoot first approach regardless of circumstance, or anything resembling the typical in game extortion aka Piracy.however inevitably there will need to go out in 0.0 space and we shall be pretty much hostile to everyone out there.
Don't draft SOP's for everything, too many rules are bad.
Again I am not siding on the issue I am just explaining.
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