14:58 @M-Steiner • Do you have a HOTAS setup btw, Anny?
15:00 @[SSX]Anubis • and you mean a joystick setup? Yeah. I still have my gear from Freespace
15:00 @[SSX]Anubis • need to dust it off
15:00 @M-Steiner • Assuming all goes well with the rest of the game and I stick with it, I'd probably get myself flight stick/throttle thingie.
15:01 @[SSX]Anubis • joystick is definitely the way to go imo
15:01 @M-Steiner • Would prefer to use something like that than a controller. I'd be using my brothers wheel for Driveclub as well if it was supported and I could find a place to clamp it over where the PS4 is situated
15:02 @[SSX]Anubis › nods
15:02 @M-Steiner • Not going to buy anything right away (in the new year maybe) but is there any products you guys would particularly recommend?
15:03 @[SSX]Anubis • ehhhh...might be best to ask BD. I could recommend you my stick, but I bought it a decade ago so there's probably better by now
15:03 @[SSX]Anubis • he might know more about up to date ones
15:04 @M-Steiner • Wouldn't want something too over the top and expensive but wouldn't want some cheap piece of crap either. I've seen the Saitek X-55 Rhino pop-up a few times
15:04 @[SSX]Anubis • I was always Logitek
15:05 @[SSX]Anubis • but no idea if they even do them anymore
15:05 @M-Steiner › nods
15:06 @M-Steiner • My brothers steering wheel is a Logitech
15:09 @BlackDove • ah
15:09 @BlackDove • how's it going, what's happening?
15:09 @BlackDove • right about the HOTAS
15:09 @BlackDove • There will be a Star Citizen branded one.
15:09 @BlackDove • Never get a HOTAS if you aren't getting the pedals either.
15:09 @BlackDove • Current "best" HOTAS as far as "<censored> supported and not dropped" is X-55
15:10 @BlackDove • If you are ultra insane with your money, you can get a HOTAS Warthog.
15:11 @[SSX]Anubis • see, far more helpful than me haha BD might pitch a fit if I had you get a 10 year old joystick :P
15:11 @M-Steiner • lol
15:11 @BlackDove • I myself got an X65F which is a different kind of HOTAS alltogether, and is a direct replica of the F-16 fighter jet. It cannot be moved though from its centre, as is the case with the real one. In all the fighter jets, the sticks are non movable, but have sensors built in them for most accurate precision. This is advanced shit and is the reason why nobody bought the stick. It's hard to master.
15:11 @BlackDove • But it's the most accurate.
15:11 @BlackDove • You can punch in all these names into youtube
15:11 @BlackDove • and see the reviews for each of them.
15:12 @BlackDove • However 10 year old joysticks work too, but if they're good. Mine is currently 13 years old, still works and is the thing I'm playing SC with currently.
15:12 @M-Steiner › nods
15:12 @BlackDove • SC can be played with key and mouse, joypad, a joystick a HOTAS or two joysticks or a mouse and a joystick etc.
15:13 @BlackDove • PAY ATTENTION THO
15:13 @BlackDove • Oculus Rift. It changes the game completely far as control and immersion.
15:13 @BlackDove • We will all be getting the consumer version of that.
15:13 @BlackDove • Something to keep in mind.
15:13 @BlackDove • Now onto pedals.
15:14 @BlackDove • Pedals have 4 different control functions. Toe brakes and of course, left right movement.
15:14 @BlackDove • Usually in flight sims they're used to roll or yaw the aircraft, but in Star Citizen we have the real world six degrees of freedom
15:14 @BlackDove • Meaning, you can move up down, left right, and forward backward all at the same time.
15:15 @BlackDove • That's what you bind to the pedals usually. The left right, up down movement. Forward backward is done via the throttle in your left hand, and the rest with the stick.
15:15 @[SSX]Anubis • yes, that is very true. When I get Oculus I will definitely get a new HOTAS to go with it
15:15 @BlackDove • It all sounds real complex, but it's actually real simple once you have everything on hand.
15:15 @[SSX]Anubis • Elite had that setup and it was phenomenal
15:15 @BlackDove • Can execute 200 commands or so with just that shit in your hands.
15:16 @BlackDove • Question then becomes can you remember all of those commands and use them quickly.
15:16 @BlackDove • That's the diff between if you're good or not.
15:16 @BlackDove • Anyway, start with X55, WARTHOG and X65F on youtube, type that in and "review"
15:16 @BlackDove • Watch the vids
15:16 @BlackDove • Give you a sense of HOTASyness
15:17 @BlackDove • Other than that, you can always get a cheap joystick and get good results.
15:17 @BlackDove • Most often used one is Logitech 3D Pro or whatever the <censored> it's called.
15:17 @BlackDove • Same as my 13 year old Sidewinder Precision 2.
15:17 @BlackDove • They do their job, but have a limited amount of what you can bind to them
15:17 @BlackDove • Meaning you'll be using them and the keyboard and it gets a bit unwieldly doing that.
15:18 @M-Steiner • Yeah, will take me a good while I think. Was just saying before that since this is pretty much a first for me I'm basically going in and learning shit as a complete newbie
15:18 @BlackDove • One thing to keep in mind.
15:18 @BlackDove • I will tell you a story.
15:18 @BlackDove • (he always tells you a story)
15:18 @BlackDove • Back in the freespace days, I used keyboard and mouse.
15:18 @BlackDove • I was getting pretty good with it.
15:18 @BlackDove • This is back in the day when yofor how good you were was pretty important in the community.
15:19 @BlackDove • I was above average. But that was my ceiling.
15:19 @BlackDove • So I figured I'd switch to joystick.
15:19 @BlackDove • I did.
15:19 @BlackDove • When I did, I went back to NOOB LEVEL EXTRAORDINARE
15:19 @BlackDove • Sure enough, it's a completely different control system.
15:19 @BlackDove • You are bound to suck with the switch and the inexperience of doing it.
15:19 @BlackDove • But I stuck it out. I trained with it a lot.
15:20 @BlackDove • And eventually punched through my ceiling of above average, to get to GODLIKE
15:20 @BlackDove • Couldn't have done it with mouse and key.
15:20 @BlackDove • Same thing here with HOTAS
15:20 @BlackDove • Point being
15:20 @BlackDove • Since you're new to this.
15:21 @BlackDove • I'd suggest joystick or HOTAS from the get go, saves you learning a peripheral and then when you want to get better, you gotta go back to n00b.
15:21 @BlackDove • Might not be that important for you at all, but something to think about.
15:21 @BlackDove • Oh and X52 Pro is a HOTAS many have.
15:21 @M-Steiner • hmm yeah, food for thought.
15:22 @BlackDove • It's cheaper, and older, but many people are good with it.
15:22 @BlackDove • As in, it's good for them, works for them.
15:22 @BlackDove • So punch that one in as well as "review".
15:25 @BlackDove • The idea with real sticks is essentially that control of the aircraft becomes something that goes directly from the brain and into reality.
15:25 @BlackDove • Hence the X65F
15:26 @BlackDove • If you could control it telepathically that would be the ideal, but the next best thing is for you to have your hand on a piece of metal, and have that metal sense VERY SLIGHT MUSCLE INPUTS from your brain and have the aircraft DIRECTLY respond to that input with no lag.
15:27 @BlackDove • All aircraft since the F-16 allow for five degrees of motion because pilots are pussies.
15:27 @BlackDove • But five degrees is essentially nothing and a placebo so that the pilots can orient themselves more easily.
15:27 @BlackDove • The bulk of the work is done via stress gauges.
15:29 @BlackDove • Far as pedals are concerned.
15:29 @BlackDove • I went for the CH pedals, latest version whatever the <censored> it was. CH makes shit for the actual aeronautics industry, but games and shit are a source of revenue too, so they use their expertise to make shit for us as well.
15:30 @BlackDove • If you've got clearance from the DOD or DARPA, they'll sell you the pro stuff too, a stick alone I think costs $30 000 from them.
15:30 @BlackDove • So their shit is extremely durable is what I'm trying to say.
15:30 @[SSX]Anubis • jesus
15:30 @[SSX]Anubis • wtf
15:30 @[SSX]Anubis • 30k???
15:30 @M-Steiner • So assuming I got one of the Saitek setups, I could then just pick one of these 3 to go with it right? http://eustore.madcatz.com/pro-flight-pedals-EU/
15:30 @BlackDove • That's the pro stuff son, the shit in the cockpits of like an F22 or an F35
15:31 @BlackDove • Was getting to that
15:31 @BlackDove • The cheaper rudder pedals from Saitek are durable
15:31 @BlackDove • But they move a bit because it's cheap chinese plastic.
15:31 @BlackDove • You can punch the name in and review, and you'll see people wiggle them
15:31 @BlackDove • They will take the punishment tho, so they are functional
15:31 @BlackDove • The more expensive ones
15:32 @BlackDove • The flight pro ones are on par with CH and probably the ideal
15:32 @BlackDove • Very tight, very precise.
15:32 @BlackDove • http://eustore.madcatz.com/mad-catz-bra ... edals.html
15:32 @BlackDove • So that one is arguably "the best" of them all, but also the most expensive for me.
15:33 @BlackDove • I got the CH ones for cheap off Ebay, well cheap, $95
15:33 @BlackDove • But cheaper than that.
15:33 @BlackDove • But they don't look as good.
15:33 @BlackDove • Prices here aren't like in the US, more like the prices there you're looking at.
15:34 @M-Steiner • Okie dokie. I shall throw some of these names into YouTube later on and check some reviews out
15:35 @BlackDove • Good place to start.
15:35 @BlackDove • Then we can talk further once you do.
15:35 @M-Steiner • Going from what you've said, a combo of the X-55 and pro flight pedals seems like a good choice but I'll see what I think once I've watched some vids.
15:39 @BlackDove • For now.
15:39 @BlackDove • As I said Star Citizen will come with their own branded HOTAS soon.
15:39 @BlackDove • Might be the one to go for as it'll be the newest one and supported.
15:39 @BlackDove • But yes, you're on the right track, that is likely the ideal config. Logically speaking.
15:41 @M-Steiner • True, may also be an idea just to wait for that rather than buy something which is only temporary. Putting aside getting used to completely different controls as you were on about.
15:41 @BlackDove • Well
15:41 @BlackDove • The X55 will not be temporary, it'll last you for as long as it'll work.
15:42 @BlackDove • With all games really.
15:42 @BlackDove • From what I hear it's one of the best sticks ever made, for that price.
15:42 @BlackDove • So you'll do fine with that. Star Citizen stuff is likely to be more expensive due to "branding" and will have its own pitfalls.
15:42 @BlackDove • It's a give or take.
15:42 @BlackDove • X55 may be the best bet even after the SC one comes out. It'll depend on what the SC one is.
15:43 @BlackDove • Doesn't hurt to wait and play with your gamepad in the interim tho.
15:43 @BlackDove • I personally knew I was going to be insane, so I went for the x65f
15:44 @BlackDove • It will relegate me to n00b mode again until I figure it the <censored> out, but them's the breaks.
15:44 @BlackDove • If not, I would've used my 13 year old stick that I've got, or would have likely bought the X55
15:44 @M-Steiner • Saying that, one would assume that the SC branded ones will have been made with SC in mind and that's likely going to be the only game I use it on. Or at least I can't see myself getting into other games with it as it was SC's approach and incredible vision with stuff like the planetside which really helped sell it to me
15:44 @M-Steiner • Will see anyway
15:44 @BlackDove • Yeah, you're right.
15:45 @BlackDove • But it's always good to keep as many doors open as possible.
15:45 @BlackDove • Don't wanna shut any unless you absolutely have to.
15:45 @M-Steiner › nods
15:45 @BlackDove • That SC stick will be surely made in mind for use outside SC too like other sticks.
15:45 @BlackDove • Unless they're completely retarded there at CIG
15:45 @M-Steiner • lol
15:46 @BlackDove • And the thing is once you have the equipment, it's not a big stretch <censored> around with shit like FSX or Microsoft simulators or whatevs.
15:46 @BlackDove • Can learn how to fly real planes with these input systems, as in for reals reals.
15:48 @BlackDove • That way, when you're traveling and the stewardess comes out of the cockpit and says "the pilot had a heart attack, does anyone in this plane know how to fly one" you can say "Yes, I have 5000 flight hours". Then you get to the cockpit and ask them how to transfer power from shields and into photon cannons.
15:48 @BlackDove • http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/01/19
15:49 @[SSX]Anubis • lol
15:54 @BlackDove • AT any rate
15:54 @BlackDove • The result you want is this.
15:54 @BlackDove • Now, he's using track ir, which is how he moves his head. I will be using it too, but a free-ish version of it.
15:55 @BlackDove • TrackIR is another can of worms.
15:55 @BlackDove • But that'll be obsolete once the Rift comes.
15:55 @BlackDove • But this is the pro way to play.
15:55 @BlackDove • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc4Iz7pduI4
15:55 @BlackDove • You are aiming for that.
15:56 @BlackDove • That is when mind and body are one with the control systems.
15:59 @BlackDove • Watch the whole thing, that is what it looks like when you fully take command of the ship. It is your slave and it obeys all of your commands to the letter.
BlackDove wrote:But for flight sims and racing games, you are supposed to be sitting down. You are supposed to have the HOTAS. Flight stick in one hand, throttle in other. It is a one-to-one ratio of immersion. You can ask any current Rift user, who plays either SC or Elite, the experience is unparalleled.
Look at how natural the whole thing works with head movement. Not to mention the aiming, as he moves the gimbals with his head, at a one-to-one perspective, meaning the gimbal movement makes for really precise aiming. (old build of the game, so pop-in etc. but you get the idea)
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