A New Look

Members Only: This forum is restricted to votes and other formal discussions and is intentionally visible to all forum visitors.

Moderators: General Forum Moderators, Global Moderators

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:05 pm

User avatar
BlackDove
Posts: 3067
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:22 am
Location: Denial
Preface: I'm going to be brutal here. It's not because I don't love you. I beat you because I care.
SSX-MS wrote:I wouldn't call it pussying out, i spent most of my free time yesterday afternoon working on icons, it wasn't like i was trying to do something quick and easy. :) I'd like to think that at least one of the sets i did yesterday (preferably set2) will be given the time of day and not just dismissed for something more flashy and animated, not just because otherwise it will have been a waste of my time but i think we already have a suitable one to use.
Just seems a bit off as well that we're going to lengths to come up with something that's animated when we have a perfectly good static set ready to use, or at least try.

I may still have a go this weekend at doing an animated set like the one i posted above, i won't write that off. To note though all the animations posted so far will freeze and look like either Image or Image for anyone that has them disabled. Neither of them are as clear as Image of set2. If the first 2 were already easy to spot for everyone we wouldn't still be doing this i don't think. :)

It's going to come down to opinion at the end of the day like animated avatars would, but putting aside my comments in the other post i don't honestly think the set needs to be animated to look good and do it's job either, as set2 has shown (at least to me as i still prefer the latter).
Yeah, yeah, the plight of the creator, nobody cares.

I could have bitched to you all day how it took me X amount of DAYS to make the star, learn macromedia, and then busted out the; "Hey, I don't want you to do anything more with it, because I did it, and it took me so much time" and we'd all still be stuck at it looking normal if you didn't come to pick it up and improve on it. All I would've had to do was withhold the source files.

You have no sympathies from me for spending time on the thing, and then having it go to waste when something else is used. We spend the time because we want it shinier, flashier, nicer, and generally just better. When I do get around to doing the 3D star, after god knows how many countless hours I'll be wasting on it, should I just take one frame render and say "that's it, you have to use that now and forever, because I made it and if you don't use it, my time is wasted"? That would just be a dick move.

No, of course, I'll give the source files and then someone (probably you) with a better eye than me will find a better way to render it, maybe even improve it, and take a different frame render, and generally just make the whole thing better.

So quit the BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW fest, and let's do something cool that, yes, will waste even more time.

Sure, Set 2 works fine, it works as fine as any static image is ever going to work, we'll live if we use it, but an animation works finer, and there really are no downsides to it. "OMGZ 4 KILOBYTES" and "OMGZ BROWSER BLOCKS ANIMATIONS" is dopey, cop-out talk and not conductive to the point, and you know it.

Point being;

Image

Or something better that you can come up with. I never said we needed to stick to set 1, 2, or 5675.

And it's not like you and I don't know the basics of how things work style wise. Flash sites with animated parts kick the shit out of any static regular site that exists, when done tastefully and right.

This is just a push in that direction. Once we're done, then we can talk about voting, and all that crap.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:02 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
To interrupt for a moment ;) We're using Set 2 for now, and it's in place. Can I ask for comments on how people feel it is working across the forum? Is it an improvement, easier on the eyes, etc?

BD, MS, if the two of you want to make animated icons then feel free to do so. We can debate whether or not to put them in place, and whether they would annoy people, once you have the set complete. However, you do need to bear in mind size and other people.

We're already running with a heavier image load than BBTech was, and are potentially slower initial load wise for those on smaller connections. 2-2.5k is, I would say, the size cap you want to be working for. We're currently running with less than 1.5k for most, and even that is slightly bigger than our BBTech icons were. We do not want to be jumping from 10k to 25-30k for icons alone, it is just not practical for a forum.

Other people wise, you need to bear in mind some people don't like or want animated images, and that some may have them turned off. The fade effect, I would think, has partially alleviated the problem of this assuming that the first frame of all your icons (that would be frozen for those with animations disabled) stands out in its own right. But again, just keep it in mind.

Until you design and make another set at the very least though, we are running with Set 2. Again, any comments/impressions of the new icons are appreciated.

Edit: Also, finally got round to changing the names in the Copyright into links. Sorry about the delay in this.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:26 pm

User avatar
El Oso
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:09 pm
Anubis wrote:To interrupt for a moment ;) We're using Set 2 for now, and it's in place. Can I ask for comments on how people feel it is working across the forum? Is it an improvement, easier on the eyes, etc?
Awesome job on the template/icons, guys!
Set 2 looks great in place, the unread icon is MUCH easier to pick out.

One thing,
The "New posts [ Popular ]" is actually less eye-catching than "New posts"
Would it be viable to make the lighter blue of the sphere signify a new post & then use a slightly darker X for the non-popular threads?

EDIT - this either got changed or I was seeing old cached images, 'cause it looks great now!
SSX-MS wrote:i don't honestly think the set needs to be animated to look good and do it's job either, as set2 has shown (at least to me as i still prefer the latter).
My $.02-
I agree with that statement 100%,
Simplicity = elegance. My vote is for function over form & keeping the page simple, distraction-free & keeping bandwidth usage/load times down :)

Not only will I be able to use the forum on my phone, I won't be sent into an epileptic fit every time I visit. :D
Last edited by El Oso on Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:56 pm

User avatar
Ambush
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:37 pm
Location: Canada
The new sets are nice and it makes looking through the forums easier on the eyes.
Sorry but im not a fan of the animated sets.
"Ambush, You Have deceived us! I'm gonna hunt you and your ship to the ends of the universe!" --SSC-Fahd "Ham Chronicles"

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:02 pm

User avatar
Kon
Posts: 1525
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: USA
Contact:
I could do without the blinking lights. I would prefer static icons.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:32 pm

User avatar
Futile Resistance
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:44 pm
Location: FL
Thanks for making set2 (sky blue) the default (so far). A lot easier for me to discern new/old posts.

Thanks again for making them!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:11 am

User avatar
Isileth
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 pm
Location: UK
Yeah Set 2 really seems to do it for me.

I can see the animated images getting a little annoying and Set 2 solves the initial problem of them not standing out anyway.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:52 am

User avatar
Plovske
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:59 pm
Location: Mayrhofen, Austria
Looking good! :cool:
enjoy!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:37 am

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 6114
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
I managed to make (what i consider) a cool looking icon with a glow earlier, so i decided to do a full set in the same style. I'm not completely against the idea of animations, they'd just have to be subtle/slow/interesting enough not to annoy me. I didn't want to just shoot them down without giving them a shot at least..

Few things to note first. These are already as optimized as they're gonna get, if i start removing frames the animation will be faster, and if i increase the delay between each frame to slow it down again, that'll cause it to stutter. The only other way to decrease the filesize is reducing the quality of it (which i've already done ofc), if i reduce it any more you'll be able to notice and it'll start becoming pixelated.

Soooo for this set (and pretty much any animation other than really simple ones) i'd say it's impossible to get them down to 2.5k or under and still have them look good, or at all even depending how complex they are. Even after compressing one of these icons to 100%, resulting in it looking like trash, it still comes out over that limit.

(You might wanna force refresh once these have loaded btw [Ctrl,F5] so they're all moving at the same pace. Can see them better all lined up that way.)
ImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

These are very similar to the set2 that we're already using as you can see, but animated. The glow effect that they use is the same as the banner and my avatar/sig. That glow kinda picks the light colours out of the background it's on to create the glow its self, because of that i had to slightly change the popular post icon and change the announcement icon as well (unfortunately with the latter as i prefer the red). The glows just weren't strong enough compared to the rest otherwise. Still, i think they look pretty neat personally. :)

I kept in mind that some visitors may have animations turned off, and as set2 has got a positive response so far i figured i'd base them around those. So for those peeps, even when the animation's frozen on the first frame, they'll still look effective. / I set the initial delay to 3secs so they're not constantly repeating and libel to start annoying people, i could increase that to 4 or 5 but then that might be too slow. I do get easily annoyed by animations in general but these are just nice for me / I did take note of the 2.5k cap especially since we were trying to reduce loading times and i've reduced the size of them as much as i could but there's no way to get them down that low unfortunately. So unless we possibly cloned the skin for the people that really want them, or we either forget or increase that limit, we should just say no to animations now and stick with the set we're already using. I'm cool with what ever we do, i just want as many people as possible to be happy so we can get these out of the way and get the other things finished (like text size/field colours), then i'll be happy too. :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:26 pm

User avatar
Futile Resistance
Posts: 1454
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:44 pm
Location: FL
Very nice. The slow pulse works for those that want some animation.

Thanks again for all the work MS :thumb:

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:30 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Mmmm, whilst they look nice I'm afraid I'd still have to say I prefer Set 2. They do the job, they stand out and fit in with the rest of the template. The animated ones do too, but in a different way - and I feel that they would become annoying quite quickly. Admittedly I don't particularly like the idea of them flashing everywhere when I try to read the forums.

Also, 4.5k is far too high. That'd add at least another 20k onto the top of the size of the current icon set, and I am not at all inclined to do that. One of the aims of the skin was to ensure that performance was as good as we could get it, and before we took 20k off the banner size we had significant loading times. I really don't want to be putting that back on.

At the end of the day it is up to everyone. Reading the last few replies (edit: Cept Fut's last one lol) I don't honestly see any enthusiasm for animation at all, and most people seem happy with Set 2. But if you like this new set and do want them then speak up now, and we can judge on popular opinion. Should they be approved, the most likely outcome is a cloning of the forum skin to incorporate them, since quite a few people are against animation full stop, and I don't want to punish them in any way.

Whatever the call though, can we leave it at this for now? We will have a finished set one way or the other, and I don't really think there is much to be gained by coming back to this over and over.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:58 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 6114
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Anubis wrote:can we leave it at this for now?
That's fine by me, like i said i just wanted as many peeps as possible to be happy so we can move on to finishing the field colours etc. I knew from my tests at the weekend that an animated set would go over that 2.5k cap as there's no way to get them down that low and if you can they'll look_really_bad, but at the same time i didn't wanna completely dismiss the idea when there were still a couple of people interested in those, filesize was the only thing i couldn't stick to.
There's the set i did anyway, i did try another one as well but they started to look tacky so i scrapped those. I'm still very fond of set2 if i'm honest, but i like this animated set too so i'd be cool with either. Tis up to everyone else. I'm happy to leave these alone anyway, we've had quite a lot of sets posted now and those 2 sets at least would do the job. :)

[Edit For anyone that's interested, these are what i had in mind for the field colours which is probably the last thing i'd like to change if we can]

Image
Image
Image
Image
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:30 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
So everyone is aware, we've turned Forcing off now and have set everyone's Profile to have the new theme as Default. If you want to go back to BBTech (or *shudder* subSilver ;) ) then you can do so now in your Profile - however all guests and new users will still see the new look. I'm deliberately trying to keep this a "Turn it off if you don't want it" rather than a "Turn it on if you do."

Be warned in advance though, the theme will be being forced when we move to phpBB3. So the choice lasts from now until we move :)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:56 pm

User avatar
W11chter
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:20 am
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Contact:
Anubis wrote:Be warned in advance though, the theme will be being forced when we move to phpBB3. So the choice lasts from now until we move
Tyranny. ;) :cool:
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:15 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 6114
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
How are the other things coming along Anny? Haven't spoken to ya in a few days. (That bug on the index when logged out, text size & the field colours like in my post above. Think that's it right? lol). Leaving those for the weekend? :)
If there's anything i can help you with just shout mate. :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:56 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Yeah, I've been putting them off till the weekend since I've wanted a break this week. Needed some time away from it after 3 weeks straight of working on it whenever I had a moment heh.

The index bug is top of my list, followed by your changes to text fields etc. Font Size I have experimented with, but I'm still not sure if I'm going to scale it up permanently or not. We'll see on that one.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:27 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 6114
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Righto!
And understandable too, has been nothing but the style for weeks now lol. It's nice to see everything coming together though, not much left to do as far as the bb2 version of this goes.
<- Very happy.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:33 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Index bug is fixed. Field colours are next. Will hopefully have them sorted pretty quickly - I don't think it's too big a task.

Also, glad you are happy with it heh.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:12 pm

User avatar
Anubis
Site Admin
Posts: 4291
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: The Unholy Realm
Contact:
Due to recent issues with the forums I have locked all users onto the new theme again until I get the time to make essential changes to both the BBTech and subSilver templates.

If you were using either BBTech or subSilver, sorry for the inconvenience. I hope to have the changes made and the forcing revoked by the end of the weekend.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:43 pm

User avatar
M.Steiner
Posts: 6114
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Contact:
Anubis wrote:Due to recent issues with the forums I have locked all users onto the new theme again until I get the time to make essential changes to both the BBTech and subSilver templates.
And you say that like it's a bad thing, just kidding hehe. ;)
Seriously though, i'd be very surprised if anyone had consciously decided they wanted to use BBTech or subSilver over the new SSX style. Then again i'm proud of our work so that's what i like to think lol. Good to have the forums working again anyway! :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Return to “Members”