Exiles

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Do you think we should keep the "Exiles" part of our name or remove it?

Poll ended at Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:39 am

I believe the group should continue to be known as "Exiles" ~ Keep the Exiles tag
9
38%
I don't believe the group should continue to be known as "Exiles" ~ Remove the Exiles tag
8
33%
I don't care either way
7
29%
 
Total votes: 24

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:24 pm

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Ozone
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Messiah wrote:Look, I went through a lot of trouble to export the SSX logo to an embroidery machine font years ago, and that shit wasn't cheap. I've got three SSX hats, for Pete's sake.
Hey, yeah, I got one of those too. Plus I made a onesie for my kid!

Regardless, I'm unconcerned. Good group of folks here, don't think the details on the name is that important. I lean towards thinking if a change moves forth beware the can of worms and strife which shall open in debate regarding the recommissioning.

Though I would be partial to Shattered Star Gamers Group (SSGG) or even Shattered Star Daily Diversions (SSDD, heh)
"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" George Bush, Jan. 11, 2000

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:07 pm

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Stracius
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I suppose I should actually put in a couple cents as well.
BlueFlames wrote:We named it [exiles] because we felt like we were wronged by our parent organization and had to leave.

I rescind my previous statement about our name being misinterpreted as a sign of petulance. I was being too diplomatic, early in the thread. The name is an indicator of real petulance, in exactly the same way that the name of the other side of the split, "Righteous Indignation" is. Our name says that we haven't gotten over this long since dead and buried conflict and that we have to announce to absolutely everyone we meet how right we are and how wrong the other guys were.

Let's move on, together, and consign this eight-years-finished conflict to the annals of our history page, where it belongs.

This, for me, is the most compelling argument. I hold the name Exiles proudly and with no shame if only because it has come to mean something more than "we split." Everyone here gave it the identity that we now have. Our friendship. Our community. I can understand the desire to keep our name because of how it means more than its intended purpose. We are exiles from the status quo, because we choose to be different, but then I have to ask whether that starts to hint elitism; something we sought to rid ourselves of so long ago. Is there any? I hope not, but I think we can more eloquently identify ourselves rather than holding to an old moniker that was, and is, petty. Because that is who we were, and that should not be who we are now.

Being an exile also serves me as a reminder, one of intolerance and inequality. For others it is a reminder of more, as is made evident anytime a discussion about the SSC is brought up. Should we forget our origin and reasons for why we are who we are? No. Would changing our name cause us to forget and/or change who we are? No.

We are.

It is time.
hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:56 pm

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M.Steiner
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Why do I keep thinking of this?
;D

Back on topic. It's nice to be hearing more thoughts from people now and not just the same few of us going around in circles with each other.
15 votes so far which is great, though we haven't had 15 members post in the thread yet going from my last count. I'm not saying you have to or anything but it would be nice to hear why you voted whichever way you did all the same, especially since the poll is so split. This is one change we made for the better with this place. We don't hold discussions like this behind closed doors where only a select number of the membership get to air their views. Everyone has that right and is welcome to join in the discussion.

I've stuck a news post on the front page in the hopes that it catches peoples attention too. Hopefully it will :)

Stracius wrote: It is time.
^
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:48 pm

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Chimera
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Alright. Well. I voted "I don't care" because...I really don't care. Use the term exiles, don't use it, it really doesn't impact me at all. I would further argue that it really doesn't impact anyone outside the gaming group, whether they are members-to-be or not. The guild I was in for SWTOR was called The Forsaken. Why did they choose it? They thought it sounded cool.

*shrug*

You could change the name of the group to "The High Priests of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" and I probably wouldn't care. For others, it certainly does matter. So, change it or don't change it; let the vote decide.

And then as Pharaoh said: "So let it be written, so let it be done."
Pain is weakness leaving your body.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:56 am

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Axavier
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I vote to keep it. I joined in 06 and knew nothing of the past drama. I enjoy reading what people have to say and get a lot of ideas for many different hobbies and interests in the group. I don't post much, but have always thought of myself as a Shattered Star eXile. If the name changes then the name changes. I'm not going to quit over it. I'm just stating my opinion that I like the name as it is.

Thanks.
"Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition."

"You tell kids today that, and they won't believe you. No, no, they won't."

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 am

Lilleth
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I joined in '06, when I started playing WoW (US). So for me, I've always been a member of the SSX. Since we can't change our guild name in WoW without losing our guild level and all the guild achievements and bank tabs we've worked for (at least, I don't THINK we can?), I'll continue to be a member of SSX there. As for the extended community here, the name honestly doesn't matter to me. I don't mean that to sound indifferent or cold; it's just the literal truth. I like what the community stands for. I like the friendship, the equality and fairness, the attitude towards gaming, the "all for one"-ness. If the name changes here, so be it. I won't feel any differently about the community, or my friends. I guess I'm voting "I don't care", since it really doesn't affect me one way or the other. Although, one wonders where we will be if the "I don't cares" have the majority? Or is that the equivalent of spoiling my ballot or abstaining? Great...now I feel wishy-washy. :rolleyes: ;)

Holy moly...I need to update my signature...LOL!
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Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:27 pm

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QuantumDelta
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No one would force that onto your group I imagine, but you probably can (with the help of the GMs), if you wanted to :x
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:36 pm

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Anubis
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QuantumDelta wrote:No one would force that onto your group I imagine, but you probably can (with the help of the GMs), if you wanted to :x
This. Any change would not be forced on groups should the poll indicate a change is desired by the majority. We've always maintained a "you don't HAVE to be named 'SSX' ingame" policy even with the Exiles name. That would not change, so you could keep using your existing guild name no probs :)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:48 pm

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M.Steiner
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What these two said ^ :)
Essentially the only change will be the Official name we're all known by out of our individual groups and the name people see when we bring them back to this place. - That being the one at the top of this page on the forum banner (and main site). :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:47 pm

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M.Steiner
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5 more days on the poll guys if any of you still need to vote & comment. Plenty of time left :)
The option is still there to change your votes too should anyone wish to do so. The poll is still a completely even split which is pretty crazy tbh. It would probably have been easier had we only had 2 options but it was only fair that the third was added too as I don't think it'd be right to force everyone to pick a side if they honestly didn't care one way or the other.

I don't want to try and sway votes either way or anything but to me the poll clearly show that there are only 7 people here who truely wish to hold on to the Exiles name and keep identifying the rest of the group as such. That's not a lot really is it?
If the poll does end at 7/7/7 or without a clear majority result I'll say now that, whilst there will always be people left feeling unhappy, I don't think it'd be such a good idea to keep hold of a name which only 7 out of 21 members have voted to keep for whatever reasons. To keep the name when only 7 still hold significant meaning to it and want to keep it for the group, 7 who think it should be removed and have issues with keeping it and another 7 who don't actually care one way or the other.. Wouldn't be such a good idea I don't think. Not just saying that because I was one of the 7 to vote for its removal though, I just don't think it'd be right. If 14 had voted for keeping it and only 7 had voted for the other 2 options that'd be a different kettle of fish and I would rest my case.

Just had thought though. I don't think it'd be fair to ask those of you who voted that you don't care to revote, unless you're leaning more one way or the other. But. Would you option 3 voters feel better about choosing whether to keep or remove the Exiles tag if you knew what we'd likely be removing it for if we were to do so?. Maybe it would be a good idea to move on to discussing and voting on possible replacements next week? - The Shattered Star, Shattered Star Community, Society etc. See what other tags come up too.
If we know which of those name suggestions most people tend to prefer and which tag we would probably end up using, maybe those 7 of you who voted for option 3 would be able to choose better whether you want to keep the Exiles name or to go with whichever new one we've decided on as an option?. May help you guys decide one way or the other?. Then we add each of those new 7 votes to either/both the keep or remove totals and see if the outcome is any different? Just a thought :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:34 pm

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Chimera
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I'll be honest. I consider the "Exiles" part a non-issue. If the options had been "keep" or "don't keep", I wouldn't have voted at all.
Pain is weakness leaving your body.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:03 pm

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SoulSeeker
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I voted to drop the Exiles name ...why coz i'm sick of people thinking i'm some sort of Boarding freak (SSX) so i propse SSF Shatterd Star Feeedom Fighters umm k SSFF :) You get the idea lol

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:36 pm

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Whizbang
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M.Steiner wrote:5 more days on the poll guys if any of you still need to vote & comment. Plenty of time left :)
The option is still there to change your votes too should anyone wish to do so. The poll is still a completely even split which is pretty crazy tbh. It would probably have been easier had we only had 2 options but it was only fair that the third was added too as I don't think it'd be right to force everyone to pick a side if they honestly didn't care one way or the other.

I don't want to try and sway votes either way or anything but to me the poll clearly show that there are only 7 people here who truely wish to hold on to the Exiles name and keep identifying the rest of the group as such. That's not a lot really is it?
If the poll does end at 7/7/7 or without a clear majority result I'll say now that, whilst there will always be people left feeling unhappy, I don't think it'd be such a good idea to keep hold of a name which only 7 out of 21 members have voted to keep for whatever reasons. To keep the name when only 7 still hold significant meaning to it and want to keep it for the group, 7 who think it should be removed and have issues with keeping it and another 7 who don't actually care one way or the other.. Wouldn't be such a good idea I don't think. Not just saying that because I was one of the 7 to vote for its removal though, I just don't think it'd be right. If 14 had voted for keeping it and only 7 had voted for the other 2 options that'd be a different kettle of fish and I would rest my case.

Just had thought though. I don't think it'd be fair to ask those of you who voted that you don't care to revote, unless you're leaning more one way or the other. But. Would you option 3 voters feel better about choosing whether to keep or remove the Exiles tag if you knew what we'd likely be removing it for if we were to do so?. Maybe it would be a good idea to move on to discussing and voting on possible replacements next week? - The Shattered Star, Shattered Star Community, Society etc. See what other tags come up too.
If we know which of those name suggestions most people tend to prefer and which tag we would probably end up using, maybe those 7 of you who voted for option 3 would be able to choose better whether you want to keep the Exiles name or to go with whichever new one we've decided on as an option?. May help you guys decide one way or the other?. Then we add each of those new 7 votes to either/both the keep or remove totals and see if the outcome is any different? Just a thought :)
You can also look at it from the other aspect as well. Only 7 people want to change the name. Let's not try and lump those of us who voted 'don't care' into either camp as you're not strengthening your argument and you're likely to piss off the other group. If anything, you should consider the 'don't care' group as those who abstained from voting as they didn't say yes/no to the question.

Also, if a name change is pushed through with only 7 votes for while the other 2/3 of the group are ignored or the 1/3 who voted neither are lumped into one particular camp, I will change my vote and will most likely leave the community. I have no desire to be forced into something I do not care about or agree with. If you want to uphold the ideals of equality here, you have to do it at every level, even if a clear majority is not provided in this poll. You created three groups (yes/no/neither), each group has a say. Neither is still a vote and represents a section of the community. If they wanted to vote yes/no they would have done it.

As for voting again, no. I will not vote again as I already voted and stated my opinion. As Chimera stated, had I to choose one or the other, I would not have voted at all.
Walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone

[16:22] <SoulSeeker> i know its not the pc version but i kill kids for fun

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<Isileth> Some dickhead

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:17 pm

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M.Steiner
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Not trying to lump anyone into any camp here. Just stated that only 7 people here have voted for option 1 and who clearly feel strongly about keeping the name. Then there are 7 (now 8) who feel the opposite and another 7 who don't care either way whether we keep it or remove it. I'm not wrong there am I?. Was just my opinion that I didn't think it'd be such a good idea keeping it when only 7 specifically want to keep the group tied to it but I know it works both ways which I've said before myself, you don't need to point that out to me.

Also I have no intention of trying to force any of you "don't care" voters into revoting and picking a side, I thought I made it clear in my post that I don't think that would be fair either but obviously not. I was merely asking a question about whether knowing what our name might be changed to, if we should change it, would that have made any of you 7 any more likely to choose to keep or remove the Exiles tag if you knew what it would probably be changed to and whether it would be a good idea for us to discuss possible names before we made any final decisions. For example if the suggested name we planned to change to was something you thought was absolutely ridiculous then you may be more inclined to want to keep the Exiles tag if you knew what the alternative was, rather than sitting on the fence or whatever. Then again some may prefer it and to others it may not have made a difference. Cos no, I don't think it would be right to push something like this through unless it was a majority decision and if you think I would then I dunno what to say other than that's quite sad and I'm sorry you think that of me. But I also don't think it would be right to keep it and label everyone with it when so few voted to do so. It works both ways imo. Was why I was just trying to think of options should the poll remain at 7/7/7 which may have helped us reach a fairer, clearer decision. Not leave so many people unhappy or pissed off, which I seem to do with my posts lately so I'll make this my last in here for the rest of the week.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:31 pm

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Isileth
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Sorry but your clearly only taking your view on the issue by reading those that didn't vote either way can be counted in favour of a change.
I read it as only 7 who want a change, 14 who don't, 7 of who don't really care if it is changed or not but aren't supporting it.

Whatever the outcome of the vote though its clearly very evenly divided. I would therefore suggest if it does go to a vote on what name to change to that the option of exiles is left in. It might well be the case that people don't actually prefer the other options. I know that some of the suggestions that have come up I would be totally against as bad names in their own right let alone my preference to keep exiles.

I would also strongly suggest that whatever the next action is after this it should be led by the arbiter. To me this should be viewed as Mechanus for the length of this issue, as was discussed in irc I would really hate to have the current arbiter vote become an issue of two sides trying to vote in someone who views one issue the same as them because they see them as having the power to dictate or cast a ruling vote.
As we have an arbiter for exactly this sort of thing it seems mad to me we aren't making use of that role, especially after the last few years of questioning if we need one because an issue like this never comes up.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:59 pm

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Whizbang
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M.Steiner wrote:Not trying to lump anyone into any camp here. Just stated that only 7 people here have voted for option 1 and who clearly feel strongly about keeping the name. Then there are 7 (now 8) who feel the opposite and another 7 who don't care either way whether we keep it or remove it. I'm not wrong there am I?. Was just my opinion that I didn't think it'd be such a good idea keeping it when only 7 specifically want to keep the group tied to it but I know it works both ways which I've said before myself, you don't need to point that out to me.

Also I have no intention of trying to force any of you "don't care" voters into revoting and picking a side, I thought I made it clear in my post that I don't think that would be fair either but obviously not. I was merely asking a question about whether knowing what our name might be changed to, if we should change it, would that have made any of you 7 any more likely to choose to keep or remove the Exiles tag if you knew what it would probably be changed to and whether it would be a good idea for us to discuss possible names before we made any final decisions. For example if the suggested name we planned to change to was something you thought was absolutely ridiculous then you may be more inclined to want to keep the Exiles tag if you knew what the alternative was, rather than sitting on the fence or whatever. Then again some may prefer it and to others it may not have made a difference. Cos no, I don't think it would be right to push something like this through unless it was a majority decision and if you think I would then I dunno what to say other than that's quite sad and I'm sorry you think that of me. But I also don't think it would be right to keep it and label everyone with it when so few voted to do so. It works both ways imo. Was why I was just trying to think of options should the poll remain at 7/7/7 which may have helped us reach a fairer, clearer decision. Not leave so many people unhappy or pissed off, which I seem to do with my posts lately so I'll make this my last in here for the rest of the week.
That's the problem. You are viewing this solely from one side, the one you stand on. There is no real attempt to view things from the other and you continuously try to see those who 'abstained' from voting as voting for your view instead of having voted for neither choice as it did not affect them or it did not bother them which way the issue went. But that does not mean that they support one side or the other. If such were the case they would have voted yes/no instead of neither.

As for the re-vote bit, it wasn't a misunderstanding. You asked if we would re-vote if we knew what new names we might evolve into and that holds no bearing on my decision to re-vote. If I felt strongly enough about the name I would have participated in the yes/no. But because the community means more to me than the label on the package, neither option was viable for me. Hell, my guild's name in GW2 is Pirate Monkeys and our acronym is PMS. If a name really was indicative of the group then we'd be in a world of trouble. :weird:

What I'm trying to make sure is that every side is represented here and that no one is having their vote misconstrued as leaning towards one direction or another. Those 8 of you who are voting for the name change feel just as passionately as those who don't want the name change. The other 7 of us feel passionately about the fact that the name means little to us as long as the community is here. But we are not in the keep or change party. We are our own party. :p
Walk on with hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone

[16:22] <SoulSeeker> i know its not the pc version but i kill kids for fun

<whizbang> Who's the ref?
<Isileth> Some dickhead

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:49 pm

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Anubis
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Mechanus wrote:
M.Steiner wrote:5 more days on the poll guys if any of you still need to vote & comment. Plenty of time left :)
The option is still there to change your votes too should anyone wish to do so. The poll is still a completely even split which is pretty crazy tbh. It would probably have been easier had we only had 2 options but it was only fair that the third was added too as I don't think it'd be right to force everyone to pick a side if they honestly didn't care one way or the other.

I don't want to try and sway votes either way or anything but to me the poll clearly show that there are only 7 people here who truely wish to hold on to the Exiles name and keep identifying the rest of the group as such. That's not a lot really is it?
If the poll does end at 7/7/7 or without a clear majority result I'll say now that, whilst there will always be people left feeling unhappy, I don't think it'd be such a good idea to keep hold of a name which only 7 out of 21 members have voted to keep for whatever reasons. To keep the name when only 7 still hold significant meaning to it and want to keep it for the group, 7 who think it should be removed and have issues with keeping it and another 7 who don't actually care one way or the other.. Wouldn't be such a good idea I don't think. Not just saying that because I was one of the 7 to vote for its removal though, I just don't think it'd be right. If 14 had voted for keeping it and only 7 had voted for the other 2 options that'd be a different kettle of fish and I would rest my case.

Just had thought though. I don't think it'd be fair to ask those of you who voted that you don't care to revote, unless you're leaning more one way or the other. But. Would you option 3 voters feel better about choosing whether to keep or remove the Exiles tag if you knew what we'd likely be removing it for if we were to do so?. Maybe it would be a good idea to move on to discussing and voting on possible replacements next week? - The Shattered Star, Shattered Star Community, Society etc. See what other tags come up too.
If we know which of those name suggestions most people tend to prefer and which tag we would probably end up using, maybe those 7 of you who voted for option 3 would be able to choose better whether you want to keep the Exiles name or to go with whichever new one we've decided on as an option?. May help you guys decide one way or the other?. Then we add each of those new 7 votes to either/both the keep or remove totals and see if the outcome is any different? Just a thought :)
You can also look at it from the other aspect as well. Only 7 people want to change the name. Let's not try and lump those of us who voted 'don't care' into either camp as you're not strengthening your argument and you're likely to piss off the other group. If anything, you should consider the 'don't care' group as those who abstained from voting as they didn't say yes/no to the question.
This. I know I've already discussed this with you, and you already well know my feeling that just as you can say "only 7 voted to keep" the same argument can be used to say "only 7 voted to change". It would be catagorically unfair to change the name on the back of a frankly very stretched interpretation of people who didn't vote for your argument.

As someone who feels very strongly about this issue but has tried to distance myself from this since the voting started to try and avoid the "guilting/shaming/pushing people into voting one way" pitfall, I would be extremely angry were the result of this to be "it's a draw, so lets change anyway". There are better ways to sort that situation out, and I honestly think it's beneath us to begin starting an argument over what "don't care" actually means.

Disappointed this was even raised if I'm honest, considering it's already been pointed out how your argument could be used both ways multiple times in IRC.

Finally I'd just like to make a point to agree with Isi here. If this turn out to be a draw when voting closes, any action leading from it should wait until after the Arbiter election is concluded. The last thing we should be doing is allowing a situation whereby peoples' views on this issue might influence who they vote for (not that they would, but it is a possibility that can't be ignored).
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 pm

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Stracius
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Right. That's it. Next up is 7 matches of Dark Horizons: Lore. Those for changing on one team, those against on the other. May the best team win. Could there be any better way to resolve a dispute on a site dedicated to gaming? :p

Those abstaining have to bring cookies. And if the abstainers win, group gets renamed to SSXC (Shattered Star Exiled Cookies). Because.
hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:09 pm

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Kon
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Isileth wrote:Sorry but your clearly only taking your view on the issue by reading those that didn't vote either way can be counted in favour of a change.
I read it as only 7 who want a change, 14 who don't, 7 of who don't really care if it is changed or not but aren't supporting it.

Whatever the outcome of the vote though its clearly very evenly divided. I would therefore suggest if it does go to a vote on what name to change to that the option of exiles is left in. It might well be the case that people don't actually prefer the other options. I know that some of the suggestions that have come up I would be totally against as bad names in their own right let alone my preference to keep exiles.

I would also strongly suggest that whatever the next action is after this it should be led by the arbiter. To me this should be viewed as Mechanus for the length of this issue, as was discussed in irc I would really hate to have the current arbiter vote become an issue of two sides trying to vote in someone who views one issue the same as them because they see them as having the power to dictate or cast a ruling vote.
As we have an arbiter for exactly this sort of thing it seems mad to me we aren't making use of that role, especially after the last few years of questioning if we need one because an issue like this never comes up.
This post is right on the god damned money.

In the first place, I think it was stupid to create a third choice at all. It could not have possibly accomplished anything except lead to the confusion we're facing now. I think that in the final count, the "don't care" votes should just be thrown out, because they don't care either way. As Chim and Mech have said, they would have abstained if there had been only 2 choices.

I almost voted for the third option but voted for the name change because I think it does warrant further discussion. I also agree that Mechanus should see this issue through to the end. I don't like the fact that this discussion coincides perfectly with the Arbiter election.

I think the best way to deal with this issue for the foreseeable future would be to have a brainstorming thread followed by 2 or 3 polls to determine the most popular alternative name to Exiles. Then we would have a final vote between Exiles and the favorite new name, and that would be that.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:05 pm

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M.Steiner
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Kahn wrote:In the first place, I think it was stupid to create a third choice at all. It could not have possibly accomplished anything except lead to the confusion we're facing now. I think that in the final count, the "don't care" votes should just be thrown out, because they don't care either way.
Lets not start any of this shall we.
I specifically asked what people thought of the poll options I had planned to include before I went and added them. Other than to simplify the 3 options I had written out, which I think I did?, nobody came forward and said they didn't think the third option should be included at all. Anny even suggested to add the don't mind option earlier on in the thread infact. - I then posted again a couple of days later to say I would be adding the poll later that night so people knew to expect it.
If you thought it was so stupid to include it why wait until now to post and say anything? Mere days before the 2 week poll is due to end and so many people have already voted?. Why didn't you say something when I asked or at least a day or two into the poll when it was still relatively fresh would have been better even?. Please don't come complaining about this now. There was a reason I asked if people were ok with the options I suggested. If you didn't see that or if you chose to put off posting then the only person to blame is yourself I'm afraid :)


Few other quick comments whilst I'm here.
Anny said something on IRC last night which I couldn't agree more with:

23:34 ~SSX-Anubis • a draw does not mean the end of the issue. I do, however, feel it would be a VERY big mistake to try and turn a draw into a win for one side
23:34 ~SSX-Anubis • (not in terms of convincing, but in terms of interpreting the result to mean a win)


I know I've said before that I don't think it'd be a good idea to keep a name that only 7 people voted to keep, 8 people voted to remove and 7 don't care either way. But what I didn't mean from that was that I thought it should automatically mean we change it. I just meant that I thought it was best we tried to reach a more unanimous decision somehow and continue discussions rather than make any final decisions.
The don't care voters are just entitled to their opinion as the other 2 are but because they neither care for keeping or removing that can be used both for or against either argument as we've already said. It wouldn't be right to try and turn a draw into a win for any side or to try and interpret the don't care votes into meaning we should keep it because they don't care about removing it or to remove it because they don't care about keeping it. If they felt any real desire or want to keep or remove the tag they'd have chosen to vote that way. But it works both ways which I was also trying to say. Just as it wouldn't be right for us to make a decision to remove the tag based on these poll results, it wouldn't be right to automatically chose to keep it either and so I believed discussions should have continued. That make sense/sound any better?.

[Edit]

19:08 @Kahn • tbh I don't think 1 vote is a clear mandate either way, but if we just leave it at that, it's a de facto win for the "keepers," even though they lost by 1 vote

^ Gotta agree with Kahn here. Pretty much what I'm trying to say above.

[/Edit]


To reply to Anny's comment about possible influence with the Arbiter voting too. I would hope not. If people are voting for their choice of Arbiter it should be based on what they think of that person, how they think they'd approach different situations and things like that. Not based on their personal opinions or view on topics like this. We're not political parties here where each of us have our own policies and will change things to the way we personally feel they should be if we were to get elected. Our personal opinions on any of this should not make a difference with voting and should never come into it deciding who we vote for. Nobody should be influenced to vote for me if they just so happen to share my views on this subject for example. It shouldn't matter and whether I became Arbiter or not, which I doubt, you know I wouldn't try to push something just because I wanted it personally or tried to abuse powers to make it happen. Just as I don't believe anyone else here would. So yeah.. none of this stuff should have anything to do with Arbiter voting as far as I'm concerned. I would like to hope it wouldn't influence anyone else either.

Last thing. I started this discussion up again because other than BD nobody else has brought it up and I thought it should be. Was anyone else going to post about it or just leave it and expect BD to be the one to bring it up again?. Looking at the poll I think that was right to do so. Since I was the one who brought all of this up again I thought it was only right that I try to lead the discussion I started and encourage more people to post and share their views, whilst trying my best to keep it on a good track which I admit hasn't gone as well as planned. I don't believe in dumping shit on other people and leaving them to deal with stuff I've started, I just naturally try and lead rather than leaving others to do the work. Maybe that's bad of me.
Anyway I get the impression that some of you would rather let Mech (or whoever becomes the new Arbiter next week) take over and see this through and that's fine, in which case have at it. I did what I could as best I could, that's all I can do. Didn't matter to me whether I was Arbiter or not. Already pulled out of the running for that position in the past :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:34 pm

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Chimera
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I also don't think that the position of Arbiter should be influencing anyone's vote or views; it certainly hasn't mine. We're all grown up here, the internet is as anonymous as it gets, and no one should be pressured to vote any other way than as they feel.

I think the third option WAS a good idea. As I've said before, changing the name or keeping the name was a non-issue for me, as I would conjecture it is for others since there are several other persons who voted for option 3 (if they were truly apathetic they wouldn't have voted at all). I will wholeheartedly go along with whatever the poll results turns out to be, as I hope everyone else will.
Pain is weakness leaving your body.

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:50 pm

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SSX-Ava
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I will echo the feeling that the third option was an important one to add. It allows the voices of the indifferent or ambivalent to be seen alongside the other votes. However I think it is important that their votes should not be added to the benefit of either group.

Also, some of the partisanship that I have witnessed surrounding this issue is shameful and embarrassing

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:38 pm

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NF
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Personally I like the fact we have history.

If someone asks me how we got our name then I'll tell them. I don't think it comes across negatively especially as, I believe, we were in the right. Instead it shows us to be people of character and of conviction, willing to stand up for what we believe in and if that means major changes then we were prepared to make the leap.

How many other guilds/clans/groups can boast that they have been around as long as us? If they have been around as long then I bet they have gone through similar situations.

Changing the name will not improve our image - it will just add to our history. I just don't think the decision should be based upon something trivial - then I definitely would feel silly explaining how we got our name!

In summary: My vote would be to stay as SSX, though I could be persuaded otherwise if it truly adds to our lore..
NF

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:57 pm

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Allowing it to add to the 'lore'/'saga'/history, of the Shattered Star is pretty easy.
Though for the same reason you will find people wincing/grimacing right now while trying to explain the exiles thing away, it may not have the most amazing chapter notes.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

Re: Exiles

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:41 am

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SL33PY
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I've been thinking a bit on the possible future name if or when the eXiles part would be dropped. We could go back to be known as SSC standing for the Shattered Star Community.

I wouldn't call it gaming community, because we are more than that. We have a great deal of people enjoying anime. We have artists and music producers who also have a voice in our group.

And if need be, I'll even throw in some new swag for Messiah so he can replace his outdated swag without the financial burden of the embroidery font, whatever that may be. :thumb:

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