Our Community

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Do you agree with my proposal below?

Poll ended at Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:58 pm

Yes
9
64%
No
5
36%
 
Total votes: 14

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:41 pm

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SL33PY
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SL33PY wrote:If we find this community precious and alive, each and everyone of us will have to step up and search for more merry folk to join.


I just wanted to emphasize that.

For our community to go forward, inner strife stories are not the way to Valhalla :thumb:

Each and every community goes trough some or multiple forms of strife. That is to be expected when you put a lot of ego's in one room. The more ego's there are the more moments of strife there can be. Hell even with around 15 votes we write 4 pages of posts filled with it. If we'd use the same commitment and passion that flow trough these post into playing games and getting new faces in we'd be bigger than IGN.

Maybe we didn't solve our differences the right way in the past. I am willing to keep the brand, if we can really call it that, but we do need to rethink how we sell the package.

NF seems knowledgeable enough about marketing. Let's talk a bit more about marketing and UNIQUE SELLING POINT. Use insights gained from that to get others interested in joining our discussions.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:54 am

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QuantumDelta
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(Love the redesign btw :P)
Herro, I've been on the almost entirely absent side forum wise, been kinda busy..

I think I was somewhat on the fence last time, leaning toward changing the name.
This time, I think it's time we moved past being exiles. We're our own group now, wearing it feels like we're still carrying a wound.

I agree with NF in some respects, but not others, his is a really solid post and actually along the lines of the one I was going to make.

Names only have the significance we give to them. Nothing else really matters. Exiles, to some still leads to a somewhat bitter memory and a somewhat annoying explanation of events that shouldn't have to be paraded out, 'history', in all it's gorey details isn't always needed. The name Exiles, begs the question, and normally wants an explanation.

Further more, membership IS at an all time low. I realise it's not like I've been doing any recruiting, I'm still playing with a bunch of ex members everywhere I go. Pretty sure there's a few nods to the SSX website in my various social media profiles.

The reason this issue wont go away is because it's a stain, and that's how it should be viewed. A dirty marker in our past and a reference to some of our darker days. You don't see anyone parading around the WoW debacle as a shining example of how our community should move forward. Sure we learned from it but a lot of what happened is awkward to explain, it's not like the guild that came outta it called itself the echos of exiles of shattered stars. :P

"Rebranding" now, makes sense, you have the lowest number of users you've had since you started by far, you have a few new horizons to look to, so if you do so now you confuse and muddy the least amount of things.
In EVE, things are being shaken up, so the actual SSX corp is probably going to end up being defunct save for alts.
Most of our other games are dead entirely.

The vote is heavily in favour for, and at the end of the day, it's who we are that matters, not a name.
If you go in to a game, make friends and make content for people, they will come to you. It doesn't matter if you think you have history.
It doesn't matter if you think you have a cool name. Even if you do open a group in a game, it doesn't matter if it's successful or not, if the forums are irrelevant to their interests you wont get them here.

This group, and it's structure, even now, is very routed in the 90s. NFs suggestion appealed to the nostalgic romantist in me, but it too, is a little short sighted. You want people in games. That's not even particularly hard. Just show them a few people together having fun, which is literally something you can do by making a friend or two and slapping a tag to their name. You want people on the forum? In this day and age? You need CONTENT. - Either game specific big important enough to spend time in extra-game activities, or socially driven, like the table top forum, or the art forum, or similar, and this stuff needs to be big enough that non-gamers will be interested, because if THEY'RE not, then someone who's 'affiliated' for completely different reasons isn't very well going to care.
It's not like men go into Harrods to look at the ladies shoe section. Unless they're forced at handbag point.

The point is. This thread, with the poll massively in favour of fixing an error we made several years ago, is about that, that error, the name.

The issue of 'getting active membership', should probably be addressed elsewhere, with clear goals, objectives, plans of attack.
I would further suggest that attempting to 'force' people to do things, is probably not going to get you anywhere (regarding ingame membership = greater forum use requirement). In this decade, it just ain't gonna fly. It's entirely not net 2.0 enough, nevermind the fact that we've kinda left 2.0 in the dirt for social media (Twitch, Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, etc, etc, etc) these days.

It says a lot that this post would have required something like 30 tweets to post. And most gamers can't even be bothered with 1.

Sort the name out, on the result of the poll. Community is fine, because it is what you wanna build. If you want snappy find something else, just drop the damn exile thing already, it's a lie anyway, and has been since at least 2006. The person who came up with the name wants it gone. That should tell you enough.

As you can probably tell, NF is right about not wanting to still see this argument. Especially considering it's about a subject that's entirely past it's best before... change is good.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:12 am

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Isileth
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This topic is a long way past being fun so forgive this response for being a bit quick and dirty, I just feel the need to make a few points around some of the replies here and honestly I just don't feel like typing out several more paragraphs on this. Future Isileth here, guess I did write several more paragraphs, they are still quick and dirty though so please read them as if I have good intentions rather than just being an arsehole

I think it's time we moved past being exiles.
it's a stain
it's who we are that matters, not a name.
'history', in all it's gorey details isn't always needed
If you go in to a game, make friends and make content for people, they will come to you. It doesn't matter if you think you have history.

Sorry I have quoted just one person there. This is in most of the peoples comments arguing for the change, its just for quickness I picked the last post.

It seems like there is some strange blindness on this argument. On one hand the name is totally irrelevant and has no effect on anything and we can switch to whatever comes out the random name generator with zero difference. On the other hand its some magic curse that has caused all our problems and we must shed it immediately.

Further added onto this, and this is one that has come up in the previous discussions and on irc and still not a single person has answered it, is what I frankly believe to be the single worst argument people are using here. I say that not trying to be a git but because I can look at the other arguments and totally see where your coming from even if I disagree, but this one just seems absurd and the fact over several years it never gets a response I think shows that.
Find me one single person that has ever not joined our group because of the word Exile. One, One person. Because I sure as hell don't ever believe that's happened. I see it as purely people who don't like the name and its history projecting that onto total strangers. No one in their right mind would ever think based on our name that "Oh they must have been exiled from a former group over 10 years ago and will inevitably still carry scars and baggage, I should rethink joining these players ive just had fun playing with the last few weeks."
We could be called the Darklight Invaders, the Burning Warriors, the Rabid Gnomes, whatever the hell we called ourselves it wouldn't matter to a new player joining. The only reason anyone would ever know our past history was if we kept bringing it up. And for some reason we do. Lets not forget for god knows how many years when you joined you got directed to read 2 A4 pages all about it, now that's the sort of shit that puts people off.

And finally I do feel its very disingenuous to keep saying this is a "fair compromise". Its just creating a false emotive argument that one side is compromising and being fair while those against are just being selfish and wanting their own way.
Lets be clear here, one side wants to change the name, the other wants to keep our current name. The "middle ground" is still changing our name. One side still "wins" while another "loses" here. I'm not saying keeping the name is any different, but I'm also not trying to pretend it is.
I also don't think you can argue that this would be a change to name we all agree on, because clearly it isn't. We would still be split and divided over it and because of how the discussions and votes have been in the past on this it will still have baggage attached to it.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:01 am

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NF
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One thing that was mentioned in irc last night has stuck with me and I'm starting to like it the more I think about it...

Simply rebrand as "Shattered Star" leaving the members of each division to choose their own suffix to fit the style of game they are playing. Not saying we should rebrand the MWO division now but, as an example, wouldn't it have been nice to have been able to theme the name to fit the Battletech Universe? As also pointed out in chat =SS= is not a great moniker to use so I would suggest that the third word is compulsory.

Existing groups can keep their name without feeling alienated by any changes, new groups get the creative wriggle room to show their personalities whilst new members get to distance themselves from a history they weren't involved in or don't care about.

Its a bit of a cheat but this way we're not dropping the SSX name or reverting to SSC which seems to be the crux of the problem.. instead we are just relaxing the rules over how each game manages its own community and identity.

Another benefit, especially when we are looking at how we can rebuild our digital presence, is that a little flexibility is always good... We want a member supported gaming-ezine? Boom: Shattered Star News is taking submissions.. We want to play Animal Crossing? Boom: Shattered Star Sickenly Cute Anthropomorphic Animals is accepting members.. etc etc,

::drops microphone, walks off stage::

(Can't remember who said it so apologies for not being able to attribute the idea properly. Microphone drop is on their behalf)
NF

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:41 pm

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M.Steiner
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NF wrote:(Can't remember who said it so apologies for not being able to attribute the idea properly. Microphone drop is on their behalf)

That would be me :)

SSX-MS on IRC wrote:23:05 @M-Steiner • If we didn't go with community for the community my choice would be to simplfy it to The Shattered Star. Have nothing on the end.
23:05 @M-Steiner • Then each individual group can decide what to put on the end of it, if they want to.
23:06 @M-Steiner • Community, Society, Exiles. Whatever. All still come together as the Shattered Star. My only prob with it is the abbreviation to SS or whatever :/


The idea then being (like said) that if each group within the Shattered Star wants to fit something on the end of there that either themselves would like, or maybe fits in with the game they're playing, they could do.

If we were making our TOR group now our sith group could have been called the Shattered Star Empire.
Neocron could have been the Shattered Star Angels.
Heh.. If I had managed to get something going in WildStar when I tried (I was playing within The Exiles faction rather than dominion) - Shattered Star Exiles
etc.

But the community as a whole would just label themselves as simply, The Shattered Star. We've been called the Shattered Star since 1997, nobody has an issue with that part of our name (I don't think?).
The problem for me there though is what kind of tag people would link with the name by themselves. TSS sounds kinda weird to me and SS doesn't need any explanation lol. S2 would be an option but that moves a little further away from SS[ ], plus the Shattered Star doesn't naturally fit that abbreviation like Shattered Star Community does to SSC, eXiles does to SSX or something like Society would to SSS.

But, but!

Take everything said above and attach it to the Shattered Star Community. That is how I was trying to approach it and give all of us here some wiggle room.
Community is what we are so it gives us an additional group wide name to stick on the end there and with a clear cut tag to go with it. Whether 4 of you have disagreed with the proposal currently, community is something we can all agree that we are. Exiles we cannot and never will. - Try and forget that Community would add the letter "C" on the end like Confederation did. We are not the Confederation :)

Groups within the community can still do the above, if and when they want.
SW:TOR as the Shattered Star Empire
Neocron as the Shattered Star Angels
WildStar as the Shattered Star Exiles
WoW:EU could have been the Shattered Star Alliance
and other groups (like Star Citizen currently) would just go by the Shattered Star Community. This would be the preferred choice ofc, as it helps get the same name "out there" as it were.
etc. (oh and just to be clear, I'm not suggesting we go back and login to those old groups and change their name lol. I'm just using them as examples as if we were to create them today. Just pulling those names out of my head too.]

But the group as a whole is simply, the community. No shit. With a broad and non-specific name like community you can just as easily knock that off the end for an individual group and suffix something else, just like people could with the Shattered Star. It's also important to remember that whatever we slap on the end of the Shattered Star [ ] in the game we're playing, if we link and bring people back to the "community" it makes sense (at least to me) and doesn't beg questions and need any explanation like Exiles has over the years. And yes, as someone who has recruited in the past for us and when talking about our community that question was asked SEVERAL times. I can't remember anyone who chose not to join us because of the name and I'm not trying to say it was ever single person I spoke to because that would be a lie, but it did lead to questions some of the time. If it never did for you then you were either very lucky or you never recruited. Community is straight forward.

[Edit] I used this example on IRC last night too but I'll add it in here too. NeoGAF. When I couldn't get anything going for WildStar over here (not through lack of trying and even getting hold of beta keys lol) I looked to NeoGAF since I'm a member over there as well. We had 2 "official" GAF guilds in the game (one was US and the Dominion, the other was EU and the Exiles). Our guilds were Neo Empire & Neo Exiles (I was actually the one to suggest Neo Exiles) but both were part of the NeoGAF community (and friends) [/Edit]

If Isi and Anny want to start a new group somewhere as the Shattered Star Exiles, within our "community" - fine. That's fair and I have no problem with that. This leaves freedom for those of you who won't budge from the Exiles name still be able to associate yourself with it (to a degree, I know). On the other side it also leaves freedom for those of us who want rid to move on from it. Annd from a third side and to the people who really don't care either way. they have that freedom also. But each of us comes together as a "community" in name. Each side can reach a compromise there if we really try. I know it's a move for change and no matter what the result one side will always "lose" but there is no avoiding that. You're not asking me to identify myself with Exiles, we're not bringing people back into a community called "Exiles", and I'm not asking you guys to drop Exiles all together either for those of you who don't want. But we're all members of this "community" and that's something we can all agree on if we all try and meet in the middle. Like the "Shattered Star" we have promoted and brought people back into our community since 1997 too, just not in name :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:15 pm

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QuantumDelta
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Isileth wrote:Further added onto this, and this is one that has come up in the previous discussions and on irc and still not a single person has answered it, is what I frankly believe to be the single worst argument people are using here. I say that not trying to be a git but because I can look at the other arguments and totally see where your coming from even if I disagree, but this one just seems absurd and the fact over several years it never gets a response I think shows that.


The point, is what it means to us.
(I like the last two posts, knocking the name off entirely is even better, to me, gives you more freedom; confederation, community, exiles, they don't always fit, and it lets you pick a more immersive name...)

What it means to us, was why it was picked. For those of us around at the time it's a heavy reminder, every time we look at the name.
For you that might give you a little bit of pride, that name, for some of us, it's gonna leave a bitter taste.

You didn't take from my post the important part, while then claiming it wasn't included in the reasoning.
If I were entirely honest about the subject I have no doubts you'd fully understand, you'd probably fully understand why I haven't been around as much, as well. The shortest, non-detailed explanation I'm willing to give in public is at the very least, at it's most benign, I see the exiles tag as hypocritical.
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.

I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:23 pm

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esd
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I vote no. Our name is our history. I like our name. Plus, frankly, my XBL Gamertag has SSX in it, and it'll cost me money to change it, so even just from a practical point of view, no.

That said, I can understand the views of others on here, and frankly I don't have the time or energy to wall-of-text this thing like I may have had when my tag was SSC.... *whistle*
""I like my women like I like my coffee. In a plastic cup.""

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:36 pm

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Ash
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Afternoon All,

I have had a blast through the posts above and can appreciate the feelings that a discussion of this type can bring out.

Ultimately I believe that dropping to Shattered Star [blank] may be your answer, as the addresses associated with this forum are
www.shatteredstar.com and www.shatteredstar.org it does make sense.

My lurker tuppence.

:thumb:
Ash
The quiet one in the corner

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:03 am

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Chaos
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I'm a no vote this round. The name Shattered Star Community just strikes me as a bit redundant. I'm not completely opposed to a name change. I could get behind the name Shattered Star Society that BD suggested before, with the tag =S3=. Whatever the final decision ends up, I'm not going anywhere. I'm here for the camaraderie, not the name.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:06 pm

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NF
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So I'm guessing by the other posts that the decision was made...

Still not a fan of "Community" - was no consideration given to other naming options?
NF

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:39 pm

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M.Steiner
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Well, the proposal outlined and which people have been voting on was for Shattered Star Community. The poll resulted in a yes so that's what I went with for the updated art etc.
Tbh though, with "community" being what it is you can just as easily refer to the group as just the "Shattered Star" and it still make sense to be the Shattered Star Community in full. Just without a tag which naturally reads as the "SS" lol.

If you guys want to take the naming further then okay I guess?. It just splits the votes a bit more and means I have to go back and update all the art and pages again (and make another steam group lol). If people would prefer to do that I won't stop ya but the proposal was for community vs exiles rather than a multi-choice selection and that's what was being voted on :)
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:00 pm

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NF
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Well, the proposal outlined and which people have been voting on was for Shattered Star Community. The poll resulted in a yes so that's what I went with for the updated art etc.


A side effect of using a binary poll (representing only a single opinion vs the status quo) prior to establishing the range of available options.

Don't get me wrong it's not the end of the world - my question was more out of curiosity about the resolution rather than a deep need to open up the discussion again.
NF

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:12 pm

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Anubis
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It seemed like most of the yes votes in the latter half of this thread were for changing the name to something OTHER than Community, so I was expecting not just a silent switch too. Kinda agree with NF.

Not that it really matters to me, since one name without meaning is no different to another.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:43 pm

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M.Steiner
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Hmm. Well, up to you guys. I was just moving ahead with what was proposed and specifically voted on (and also made it known on IRC at one point that I was already working on updating the art to "community" so as not to have it all to do at once) :)

Personally I like Shattered Star Community, Shattered Star and Shattered Star Society.
Community fits what we are and is non-specific enough to have other names within it, if and where necessary. It also abbreviates well to SSC.
The Shattered Star and Shattered Star Society do the same but the tags people will associate with those are TSS/SS/SSS which do not look good at all. The alternative being S2/S3 but that not only moves further away from the SS[] part of our tag we've always had, but looking at the name people aren't going to think oh? the Shattered Star is S2 and not the SS heh.

Anyway.. Speak up if you guys really wish to take the naming further. I will redo the art again if needs be and that's what people want but we best do it asap rather than drag it out for too much longer otherwise it's gonna get silly. Also don't want to mess people around (like with the new steam group) to have gotten everyone to join this new one and then have to kick, disband and recreate it some time from now :thumb:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Re: Our Community

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:05 pm

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BlackDove
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Weirdly enough, Chaos for example was for the switch, but voted no.

The pitch and the poll was for "community", that's what we should go with. There aren't many other options available really anyway. And we are a community.


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