Promyvion-Dem done.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:05 am

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BlackDove
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Take your time heh, the Promyvions aren't going anywhere for me {Long Time} so it's cool. (I mean god knows there's a bunch of other stuff to do in the meantime -_-)

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:46 pm

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Anubis
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I just got the last cutscene before I can start them last night, from the guard at Jeuno palace (went to Dem and tested at the shattered crystal that I could get in, and I could, which is cool). Only 23 atm, so Im going to grind up to 30 before I go looking for a group for any Promyvion.

Though when I hit 30 Im planning to switch to DRK (which will become my main class) and level that up. Do you think I should level up DRK before I do Promy's at 30, or use my Warrior for them before I unlock DRK?
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:52 pm

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BlackDove
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DRK is useless in Promyvion so you'll definatly be going in as WAR since you have it.

What would be good is to get NIN to 15 though - considering WAR/NIN is the most useful conbination in the Promy after SMN.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:00 pm

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Anubis
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For tanking I assume? And cool, I'll do it as Warrior when I hit 30 then :) Means I get it done quicker than waiting till I've got DRK to the same I guess.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:46 pm

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BlackDove
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This is why Promyvions are a bitch - only specific jobs are useful there and most of them are redundant.

The best team for the Promyvion (and for every other god damned battle in the game) are 6 SMN's.

If you can't have that, then WAR/NIN is the best, because that's the best tank/damage dealer in the Promyvion at that level (level cap 30)

Paladin is useless.
DRK is useless.
Samurai is semi-useless though he still semi-works if he goes /WAR for being a second provoker and at that low a level with Third Eye he can somewhat tank, but again, WAR/NIN beats that any time. The thing that *may* justify a SAM is his 2h Meikyo Shisui which does deal a good amount of damage when you need it - this is more or less the definition for MNK as well since his 2hr will do damage proportional to how much he can hit but other than that - useless
RDM is useless, second heal nobody needs and takes up space for a damage dealer, can't raise
BLM is useless, the magic at that level does crap all damage to the spire mob
DRG, PUP, COR and I think even BLU are useless, though not so sure on the BLU, however judging by the level cap and the BLM's usefulness, it's useless as well.

So what works?

SMN (2 or more)
WAR/NIN (2 or more)
RNG (2 max)
WHM (1 max)

This is the pain in the ass with CoP material. It requires specific jobs for greatest chance of success and none of us want to level crap we don't want to play, but have to because of CoP.

This is why it's so hard for me to do CoP - I'm not playing the cookie-cutter job, and I don't want to play it.

Hence, no invites for the run unless it's pre-planned and includes me as someone who "needs" it, otherwise nobody wants you there because you suck - and you can't blame people who have the correct jobs, because they're right.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:08 pm

Eriyalle
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If I can interject, a lot of the material here is hearsay and while it's a good guideline for successful pick-up parties, for a group with a strategy the Promyvions can be relatively flexible for most jobs. There are only 2 jobs that I have taken through in the past that going forward I will request a person swap to something else at 30 (and they will have something else at 30 because they are advanced jobs) and that is BRD or COR.

Paladin is useless.

I disagree. I've done each promyvion crag upwards of something over 20 times... I honestly stopped counting... and I've had PLD, NIN, and WAR (including a WAR/MNK) all tank with EQUAL efficiency. The difference is preparation, player skill, and gear. A PLD wearing shade will get ripped to shreds. A PLD wearing eisen does a fine job tanking any of the 3 lesser promyvions. Of course, the player has to know their sword from their shield. :thumb:

DRK is useless.

Again, I disagree. While ranged attackers tend to need less curing in the promyvions, so are typically preferred, having 1 close range melee on the team is not a hinderance as long as the team is prepared with proper meds (for holla holy water, poison pots). For this close-range DD slot we've taken SAM, DRK, WAR, MNK, BST, BRD, THF... although BRD are the hardest, in my opinion.

RDM is useless, second heal nobody needs and takes up space for a damage dealer, can't raise
BLM is useless, the magic at that level does crap all damage to the spire mob

I strongly disagree here. I will not take in a promyvion party without a 2nd mage. And a smn is not a 2nd mage for a lesser promyvion battle as all their MP leaves when they 2hour. Against Mea especially, gravity is your best friend. RDM are priceless. Paralyze, Slow, and a 2nd mage focused on curing the tank so the tank lives makes a world of difference. In all of the strategies I use, the 2nd mage is ALWAYS on debuff and backup cure, holding nukes for the last 10% of mob life if needed. We bring along enough DD to kill the boss, the mage is there to keep the boss slow and stupid and the tank alive. With the strategies I use, not having a rdm or blm along would end in absolute disaster.

So what works?

my personal preferred arrangement:
TANK (WAR, PLD, NIN)
HEAL1 (WHM)
HEAL2 (RDM, BLM)
DD1 (RNG*, SAM, DRK, BST, THF, MNK, WAR, whatever... damage 2hour preferred)
DD2 (RNG*, SMN)
DD3 (RNG*, SMN)

While SMN are king for Promyvion-Dem, I really don't like them for Holla at all. Too much rides on their 2hour. A sleep at the wrong time is a guaranteed party wipe. For Holla I prefer to take melee rather than mana parties where 2hours are happy, but not needed to beat the boss unless things go really wrong.

*Despite the "supposed" RNG-nerf, I still prefer RNG over SMN for the promyvions. You give me a team with the proper prep and meds and anima and 2 rng... and we can win without 2hours on any of the 3 crags. Which is helpful because I have this BAAAAAAD habit of taking 2-4 parties up at a time where the RNG need to repeat for all the teams to win and get through. :thumb: Another reason why I tend not to bring SMN except for Dem... it sucks to have to sit and wait 2 hours to take the 2nd party through because you need someone's 2hour ability to come back.

Sorry if I come off a bit strong about this, but one of my biggest petpeeves in FFXI is the commentary on our servers that people *HAVE* to be a certain job or other jobs are *USELESS*. Yes, certain jobs lend themselves better to certain strategies. But that doesn't mean there aren't other strategies that are just as effective that can use a wider variety of jobs to full advantage.

I'm sure if I limited the promyvion runs that we do at this point to people only having specific jobs that we could win 100% of the time. But that defeats the purpose of FFXI for me. I play this game for the strategy, for the challenge, and for the fun and teamwork. I won't ask someone to level a different job when the one they have already will work perfectly well once we figure out how to use it properly. :)

As an example, the team I originally beat the lesser promyvions with included some of my closest friends and the best we could do at the time job-wise was:
WHM
RDM
NIN
NIN
SAM
RNG

Was it hard? You bet. Did we win on our very first try? umm... no. But Holla took us the most tries at 5 and Mea the least tries at 2. It was possible and totally fulfilling when we were done.

~e

Which... brings me to date/time. Would Saturday, 7/1 at 10 AM EST work for ya'll for a promvyion-holla (hopefully enough in advance of the ZM6 for those needing that fight as well)? Let me know if so, I'll post it up on my side as well and with the official date/time post give you guys the prep list. Once I see who we have that needs it and what jobs you can bring I'll be able to figure out what job I'll be. ^^ /dance /dance Once you confirm if it's a go I'll reconfirm with Leonis since he's on England time and 5 hours ahead of us. Heaven forbid I overlap a rave. XD

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:26 pm

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BlackDove
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I'll agree that your assessment can be correct when you're doing a set-up party with people whom you know and who will follow your instructions to the letter, as in, will spend 50k on items, and have all 3 anima's.

But since I've actually seen and had chance to participate in that kind of an event so far for about 5% of the time of all my promyvion runs (and those 5% I was directing, so you can calculate the n00b factor there - IT) - I'm gonna go with me being completely correct with my assessment of jobs as far as pick-up parties go, and 50% correct as far as a scheduled Promyvion is concerned.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:01 pm

Eriyalle
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So are you interested in that date/time at all? If it's not workable I won't be able to get anything timezone appropriate soon, but I can keep trying.

And to your reply, pick-up parties for CoP are rough, because the CoP missions are very challenging.

The fun part is... defeating the lower 3 promyvions is the EASY part. The missions overall become much more challenging as you progress through the storyline. In my honest opinion, if a player isn't ok with shelling out 50k and the time to farm anima for each of the promys, then they should skip CoP altogether. The missions just get more expensive and more time intensive from there, some requiring either hours of farming in advance, or a few 100,000 gil (I'm not looking forward to CCB Polymers...) to buy the items that will help even an *uber* crew of seasoned players used to working as a team succeed.

~e

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:19 pm

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Anubis
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Sorry, I havent been paying forums close enough attention the last few days. Exams and all.

Thats about 15:00 for me, perfectly fine. Though I cant confirm that I'll be 30 by then. Rest of this week is still full of revision etc. I'll do my best to get there, but how successful I'll be I dont know.

If thats ok for you count me in. I'd like to start a Promy, see what its like :)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:17 pm

Eriyalle
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I'd be happy to count you in. :thumb: Keep me posted how close to 30 you get and what subjob you'll have for your war as that will affect the rest of the party make-up. I'll do my best to build us a successful boss squad, but these are really hard so we still lose sometimes, too. (To quote Ai Aori Aoshi... I am not perfect, but I hope you will accept my efforts.)

I'll get an *official* post up tomorrow which will list items needed, etc. I'll also look at my schedule and see what we can do as far as setting up anima farming in advance, since it's afternoon for all of you, maybe I can even come on earlier for us to farm a little that day, I should have a better idea in a day or two. For items needed, typically per fight you won't go through a whole stack, so if you want to coordinate with someone else to split stacks and share costs that's totally fine. I'll give estimations of how much of each thing you will need along with reasons why so you know I'm not just asking you to spend gil to support our inflated economy. XD

~e

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:10 pm

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Anubis
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My subjob will most definatly still be Monk, I certainly wont have time to sub ninja for the Promy's by then. Currently 23 WAR, I will ensure Im at least 27 before the run, though Im not sure how much higher :( And ofc, I understand that we can lose sometimes, was the same in WoW. If at first you dont suceed, try try try again :thumb:

I look forward to reading the official post, items needed etc. Since its my first run some stuff will probably be new to me (more like guaranteed to be lol) so if it doesnt drain my funding I might buy a few extra to experiment with beforehand.

You might need to be a little patient with me when the run starts, as any cutscenes will delay me (others have probably seen them) etc. Im a noob. Forgive me ;D
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:30 am

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BlackDove
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Like I said in the Zilartie thread, anywhere between 7am to 7pm EST is fine with me I suppose, the 7pm EST being the lower limit :p

Oh and pick up parties are rough.....very rough. :p

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:08 pm

Eriyalle
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No worries about newbie-ness to promyvions. :) I take alot of new people through the crags, so it's usually the veterans I ask to be patient. Once we've all zoned in I always call everyone's attention and run through our instructions and the tutorial for what we're doing and what you can expect for the run to the top floor. Those who usually repeat with me to help out I think almost have my speech memorized. :smack: Then once we get to the top floor we set up and discuss the fight itself. Since many of you on this will be on GMTish times, if you're willing to farm earlier I can come on before the start time to help and can orient you more towards the promys themselves during that time too so for the run up you'll know what to expect. I'm creating the actual event post now, I'll get it up once I finish it.

~e


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